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Regulars




You doing the challenge helped me too. It forced me to look even deeper and do more investigation into what I was doing with a eye toward solving rather than being frustrated over the problems I was having.
I figured out what my basic problem was, started doing more work on intonation specifically, began putting in even more time on scales, "invented" a new practice exercise routine for fingering/intonation, and more.
All because of you doing the challenge and blogging it.

Regulars




I'm happy that you feel your intonation has improved. Mine has not done as well as I'd hoped. However, after watching these 2 videos I now know why. I've watched them before but didn't have a solid enough knowledge/practical base to understand what they were saying.
This first video helped me with hand frame. Tension in my left hand is preventing me from getting a good tone and limiting my fingering ability to correct my intonation. Some of the things he pointed out are helping me modify my left hand grip and finger "resting" position off/above the strings. This is going to take a lot of very careful work on my part because it puts a huge strain on my arm/wrist because I'm so stiff. I've already tilted my violin more to help get my fingers more square to the strings but I'm still limited in how long I can play before it gets painful.
This next video made me realize a few things. First is that I'm about where I should be as far as intonation goes because Suzuki 2 picks that up from the beginning of that book. Secondly, I was right when I thought that intonation isn't worked on hard enough in the early lessons because the idea is to get the student learning how to read music and then just play more and more pieces. This is basically lying to them about "how well they're doing in their playing" when the reality is that they can read music and are only learning what the dots, marks, and squigqles on the staff mean. I think that a better approach would be to focus on learning to read music and getting the notes correct from the beginning. Bowing technique is learned from scales and practical exercises but intonation can only come from correct finger position and a good hand frame. Those things are basically ignored in the early lessons in favor of "fixing it later." This video brought all of that together for me.
The tonalization techniques she uses are simple and easy to use and learn. As she demonstrates in the video, by "fishing" for that ringing tone for each note you can get the violin to sing sweetly. Which is what I'm trying to achieve.
The video also made me think about how B is considered a ringing note even though it really isn't. Most wolf tones are on B, mine definitely is. There's probably a physical correlation between the wolf tone and the fact that B really isn't a ringing note that causes the wolf to swallow whatever tone the B can be produced on any specific violin. I don't know if it's true, or even if it can be proven true or false, but I'm thinking that every violin has a wolf tone, we just can't hear it unless it's really bad.
Anyway, knowing that I'm about where I should be when it comes to intonation, I'll try to stop stressing so much about how awful my intonation is. I'll also continue to work on getting Gossec's Gavotte done. In the process I'll use it and the Suzuki Book 2 tonalization stuff (plus RDV's composite G and C major scale) to begin learning the intonation techniques I should have learned months ago. I'm considering getting the book of fingering exercises that the guy in video 1 uses too.
Maybe, in a few months I'll be a better player than I am now. I doubt I can be worse. My violin definitely can smell fear too.

Regulars




Mouse said
I am fascinated how you are able to nail everything!
I throw darts at post-its on the wall. "Mouse probably has this problem, and that one, and that one too..."
The reality is probably more like you and I are at about the same level and we're both looking for the same thing. I also teach beginners in a different field so I understand that they don't know anything and that it's my job to teach them everything. Skipping stuff isn't a good teaching technique and could, in certain instances, get someone seriously injured if not killed. It certainly doesn't lower the frustration level after someone realizes how they've been led on by someone they trusted.
Teaching kids is different than adults too. Kids have enough growing and coordination issues that skipping a few things while they work on basics is fine. They understand that they're not going to be a star at tetherball until after they've played it for awhile and grow some more. Same for the violin. Or baseball. Or...
Adults however need to be told why. If you don't have an answer to that question then it only tells the adult that you don't know the answer. In that case, why are you trying to teach what you don't know? It's worse when you ignore an adult's concerns about what they're being taught because what they're really telling you is that they don't understand. If they don't understand, they cannot progress even if the lesson plan goes on to the next topic.
Blah, enough of that dreary subject.
In the RDV video, she talks about getting that ringing note and shows some exercises she has her student's use. The underlying point she never actually says (why?) is that you only get that ringing sweet intonation when you stop the string at the EXACT point that creates it. Even if the tuner says you're smack dab right on the note, your violin can be telling you that you're not.
Other issues are finger pressure. Neither of them talked about that in the videos either, but if you put too much pressure on your finger you smash them and they spread wider This changes the point where the string is stopped and is unreliable for repeat fingering. Minimal finger pressure to stop the string on the EXACT spot for a sweet tone is the ticket. Or so I've come to believe at this point in time. That may change as I learn more. However, the hand frame fingering technique from the first video coupled with the tonalization exercises from the second video seems to be the way to go.

Regulars




Ok, I couldn't resist digging more at the poor teaching thing.
The Suzuki lesson plan is all about transferring as much musical data as possible. To do this it concentrates on reading and understanding musical notation at the expense of playing what you're reading "well." I know what the dots, squiggles, slashes, hashtags, letters, and so on in the book mean. I still cannot play "well" even at the end of the first book.
Which, upon reflective analysis, indicates that the book isn't about teaching me to play "well" it's about teaching me how to read and respond to musical notation. Which, to me, misses the point. I don't care if all I can play is the "cupcakes" song*, I'd like it to sound like I'm a violin virtuoso instead of a 3 year old having a screaming fit.
*Cupcakes song:
My mom's cupcakes are the best
Better taste than all the rest
Golden spongecake topped with cream
Each one tastes just like a dream
My mom's cupcakes are the best
Better taste than all the rest.
Wait, are you like everyone else who thinks that the lyrics for that piece are supposed to be about the doppler shift effect of the light of a distant sun?

Regulars




Mouse said
Other issues are finger pressure.
Oh, wow! I do smash the strings! Thanks! I am going to add that to my "things to look out for."
I think you are right that we are about in the same place.
I throw darts at post-its on the wall. "Mouse probably has this problem, and that one, and that one too..."
That is funny. I am afraid that I would miss the post its completely. My dart throwing is really bad. Tetherball!? I can do that. We had a tetherball in our back yard when we grew up. That was fun, actually.
I got a scales book and found a bowing exercise book that I bought way back when. I also have Fiddlerman's string etudes to use. I think I need to find a song that has sections that are scales, but not those 8th and 16th note scale runs. I am not ready for that. Even though I know you can slow them down and treat them as quarter notes for practicing and learning, my brain sees a lot of black notes and I am not able to play them slowly. I can't tackle that issue right now, so I am looking through my books. I know, my brain works in mysterious ways!
The first video mentions a book with exercises that start simple and progress from there. A. A-A1. A-A1-A. And so on for repetition until you know exactly where the finger positions are and can pick up the pace for playing them. It might be Sevcik but I'm not sure. He mentions it in the video and shows a page from it.

Regulars





Correct
Sevcik op 1 book 1
Great exercise
https://fiddlerman.com/wp-cont.....Violin.pdf
Only do the first l line until your good with your intonation, then do the second line and add to first line
Start one note per bow really checking your intonation ( I personally use the app Intonia very visually easy to see the pitch error, use the normal mode to start then progress to the tuning mode its 5x tighter to the pitch) then after a bit 2 notes per bow then 4 to 8 to 16 to 24 or to what ever bowing pattern your comfortable with.
Note: bow speed stays the same for 1 note to 24 notes
It works
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons

Regulars




There's some bow technique involved as well, which I didn't mention. I've been trying to get good intonation from A4 that sounds like EO. Messing around I found that a very light quick bow stroke gives me the same note as the open E with good tone and it doesn't sound like a "beginner" played it. There's no volume even when I bow next to the bridge, but the tone is there. If I use more bow pressure to try and get volume the tone turns into the beginner sound.
If I use that same light/quick bow stroke method for the other fingerings, I almost get there. Ringing notes but still poor intonation. I have the original Dominants that came with my violin and I'm going to change back to them. If that moves my overall intonation in a better direction then I'll look into a set of brighter strings rather than the warm ones I've been playing on.
So a breakthrough might come from strings that the violin likes more than the ones I have now plus a lot more practice at finger accuracy.

Regulars




The Red Desert Violin video I posted earlier has a "combined" G major/C major scale in it for intonation practice which does a lot of 4th finger work. I also do a 4th finger on every string when practicing basic scales to give the little guy a daily workout.
The other video about hand frame had me change my setup. I have more tilt than I used to. I think it's too much because my bow on E is straight up vertical but until I get more flexibility in my wrist, it's what I have to work with. With the extra tilt not only is my hand more able to cup the neck with less finger angle to the strings, my fingers arch better over the strings and I'm up on my tips more than I used to be. I'm also able to keep from touching the other strings so they can do the sympathetic vibration thing. RDV mentions it when she plays D3(G) and her G string vibrates in harmony with her D3. I reasoned that if she was touching the G string simultaneously with her 3rd finger on D, the G string wouldn't be able to do that and her intonation wouldn't be very good.
That was a "lightbulb" moment.
I used to have to do the mash fingers 2 and 3 together thing too or I'd never be on the note. Usually I was low on 2 and high on 3 even overlapping my fingers because there wasn't enough room between the 2 note positions on the string. Now that I'm up on my tips, that's not happening so much. Also, I've watched so many videos I don't remember which one it was in but one of them had a finger pressure drill that went something like: On a scale of 1-10 figure out how much pressure you need to get that fuzzy whistle, then how much pressure to touch the fingerboard, then what's the minimum pressure you need to use to stop the string and get the note. That gave me the thought that I only need "just enough pressure" to stop the string, not drill my fingers into the fingerboard.
Ode to Joy has several descending/ascending scales in it. Plus it's simple to learn. Fiddlerman has the sheet music.
I'm doing a lot of short audio recordings to listen for intonation changes. I have to tell you that when I first got that 4th finger E to sound like the open E, I was so shocked I literally just sat there with my mouth open. It's not perfect because it's very muted, but I can reliably repeat it. Which means it's a start on the right path.
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