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(4 votes) 
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But I’m going to ask anyway ….
With intervals are the half steps/ whole steps defined by where you put your fingers?
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Since this queation seems open to discussion from all... If you are asking in relation to a specific scale like Major vs Minor... then Id say The scale type would determine that if youre trying to stay true to that scale.
If you closed your eyes and randomly place the first finger on the fingerboard and played one major scale up an octave.. it should have the intervals W-W-H-W-W-W-H and not change just because youre in another place on the fingerboard.
I think thats what your asking. I hope im not confusing things. and that dorsnt take into account stuff specific to individual pieces of music like accidentals or key or modal changes. In addition as you move up the fingerboatd..the spacing on fingers changes for the scale ..but the interval between notes doesnt..
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ABitRusty said
Since this queation seems open to discussion from all... If you are asking in relation to a specific scale like Major vs Minor... then Id say The scale type would determine that if youre trying to stay true to that scale.If you closed your eyes and randomly place the first finger on the fingerboard and played one major scale up an octave.. it should have the intervals W-W-H-W-W-W-H and not change just because youre in another place on the fingerboard.
I think thats what your asking. I hope im not confusing things. and that dorsnt take into account stuff specific to individual pieces of music like accidentals or key or modal changes. In addition as you move up the fingerboatd..the spacing on fingers changes for the scale ..but the interval between notes doesnt..
One factor that should also be considered is that as you go up to another position on the fingerboard, the "length" of the step shrinks. A whole step between fingers in 1st position is spaced further apart than a whole step in 3rd position. Or so I'm informed.
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@RDP said
One factor that should also be considered is that as you go up to another position on the fingerboard, the "length" of the step shrinks. A whole step between fingers in 1st position is spaced further apart than a whole step in 3rd position. Or so I'm informed.
Good point. I was not made aware of this until my last instructor. It makes it harder for me in the rare occasion I venture out of first in my violin or viola. It does not affect me as much on my cello. I suspect wider spacing to begin with is the factor.
I keep forgetting all these little details that would help me with finger placement on the fingerboard. I know them, and when I am just working on that, I can do it. Every time I try to play a tune, everything goes out the window.
Any other tips relating to Katie M's topic here would be greatly appreciated.
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Thanks for getting back to me . So basically take d major scale.. when you get to the g on the d string third finger you then go to open a on the a string - that’s a whole step. I wasn’t sure as it’s an open string and I’m not putting a finger down. So I think I just answered my own question. If the fingers are close it’s a half step if they are further apart they are a whole step
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@Katie L Here is a link that shows the fingering in the keyboard, and it easily shows what I think you are asking about.
https://www.violinonline.com/f.....chart.html
I was going to post a screenshot of the fingerboard, but there were copyright issues, so the link will have to do.
It gave me an easier way to visualize it. You can see, that what you stated above is true. It did create a question about positioning for me, but I will hold off. I do not want to detract from your original post.
I hope this helps you visualize what you were asking about.
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Oh no you go for it mouse !! Will have a look at you link thank you 😁😁
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Katie M said
Thanks for getting back to me . So basically take d major scale.. when you get to the g on the d string third finger you then go to open a on the a string - that’s a whole step. I wasn’t sure as it’s an open string and I’m not putting a finger down. So I think I just answered my own question. If the fingers are close it’s a half step if they are further apart they are a whole step
@Katie L Just adding to what others have said in different ways--
The distance between steps reduces as you move up the fingerboard. Just like on a guitar—you can see the frets are closer together as you move up toward the center of the instrument. The violin is the same—but the steps are smaller (shorter fingerboard).
When you move from the G on the D string to the open A, it is a whole step. If you played that A as a 4th finger on the G string rather than the open A string (i.e., the same A), your 4th finger would be a whole step away from your 3rd finger G.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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Of course ! I totally get in now thanks Sharon you are a star !!!
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Katie M said
So basically take d major scale.. when you get to the g on the d string third finger you then go to open a on the a string - that’s a whole step. I wasn’t sure as it’s an open string and I’m not putting a finger down. So I think I just answered my own question. If the fingers are close it’s a half step if they are further apart they are a whole step
@Katie L -
Pretty much, but... (I realize you already got a short answer you were looking for).
Back to my favorite Prof William Fitzpatrick's fingerboard & hand shapes video - his chart shows all half steps/semitones & accounts for shortening of interval distance on the fingerboard, moving closer to the bridge. He also talks about the hand shapes & why they are important.
I think what can be confusing (at least it was for me) about Music Intervals is there are different ways of naming/describing intervals in music.
When we are taught to read music notation, the staff shows increments of semitones (space then line, etc...) - these are SCALE STEPS and easily relate to how a piano keyboard is laid out for CHROMATIC SCALES, in equal temperament tuning. BUT, the violin is SO MUCH MORE than that! This is why listening is so important, because music can be enhanced (or ruined 🤣) by squeezing or slightly lengthening intervals by Microtones (intervals less than a semitone).
We want to relate music notation to what is played on a piano and other 'fixed-tune' instruments in Orchestras, but when DOUBLE STOPS become involved we like to tune our strings so they harmonize better - PERFECT FIFTHS (this is only one type of 'fifth'). This QUALITY & NUMBER is another naming scheme used in Western Music Theory, BUT there is also a difference between a 'perfect fifth' on the piano (Equal Temperament) and 'perfect fifth' tuning ratio on string instruments, which involves the Harmonic Series (Pure Tones and Overtones) and TIMBRE (Tonal Color/Quality).
This is also where 'Expressive Intonation' comes into play, explained in the Violin Masterclass - Intonation: Expressive Intonation Video - the importance of 'high leading tones', 'higher major thirds' (slightly wider interval) and 'lower minor thirds' (slightly shorter interval).
Thank you for reminding me about this subject! I need to write more about this in the Intervals - More Than You Think! Thread, and probably the Traditional Fiddle Intonation vs. Classical Violinist Intonation Thread. Btw, you are always welcome to add questions in these, or any other related thread - because it can help develop or resolve these discussions & ideas that may start out awkwardly. I really wish this info had been made clear to me when I started playing the violin, maybe it isn't an issue for others, but I wasn't even sure how to ask about my confusion back then.
- Emily
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