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Although Thomas has been doing a tremendous job with the violin, learning everything I and his private teacher are throwing at him, he is struggling with one thing. His teacher wants him to immediately play a note she says. For example, A flat,B sharp......and he has to stop and think for a few seconds, obviously saying his alphabet, hahahaa. Anyway, I have written down a fingering chart which helps him but I dont want him to do it that way. Any ideas about a gimmick or trick for him to learn his notes or should I just keep working with him rote fashion, as I learned and most others?
Jim(Thomases Dad)
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This will probably be looked at as a gimmick but it really helped on guitar and it also has a setting for mandolin which is tuned the same as violin so will also work. I think it really comes down to either practicing scalea and saying the notes BEFORE he plays them...which if done.. or using something like this to quiz with over and over. the good thing about the app is it can be done without the instrument. i used to go through a few rounds before bed and at lunch..stuff like that
https://play.google.com/store/.....me.android
Link to google play. fretboard learn
im sure its available on IOS at apple store. or something like it
No issues with app..i did purchase to get rid of ads
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Yep, say the notes as playing them, ot you saying them, Thomas saying them. Eventually the place on the fingerboard, the place o the staff, which is not what you say is the problem, and the note will connect. It is repetition and connecting the dots. May take a while.
I am not saying to do this with difficult or even medium difficulty songs. Have him play simple songs and say the notes. Twinkle Twinkle on different strings, 3 Blind Mice, Row Row Row Your Boat, etc.
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Say the note, then play the note. Repeat until playing the correct note is automatic and instant.
I had to do this when learning Tai Chi. Learn to do all the forms first. Then say each form name as I was doing them. Then say a random form name and perform the movement. Eventually you don't have to think about which one is which.
As he grows and progresses you can make it harder by asking him to name and play "the 5th note in the D major scale" or "the seventh note in G major" and so on until he knows all of them.
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Good luck to him 🙂 plenty of good advice above.
Personal ranting here : I never could do that naming-the-notes thing. I keep unpleasant memories of that during piano lessons! and even if I tried now, I'm guaranteed to end up with a headache very quickly. That's also one of the reasons why I never considered taking viola lessons. (Just thinking about doing this makes me a bit anxious, actually.)
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wtw said
Good luck to him 🙂 plenty of good advice above.Personal ranting here : I never could do that naming-the-notes thing. I keep unpleasant memories of that during piano lessons! and even if I tried now, I'm guaranteed to end up with a headache very quickly. That's also one of the reasons why I never considered taking viola lessons. (Just thinking about doing this makes me a bit anxious, actually.)
yikes. yeah I did all this as an adult on my own because it was something I wanted. If It was the other way it would just be another homework assignment.
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@JimandThomas -
Only 1st position? That's bad enough. 🤣
I tend to think this way - may be helpful reinforcement.
Think SMALL GROUPS: I find it much easier to think in smaller groups.
- notes of each finger position - group of 4 notes (one of each string)
- notes of each string - group of 8 notes (or 9 if including high 4th finger)
Think RELATIONSHIPS: how each string relates to each other - becomes even more important as you shift up the fingerboard, because these relationships stay the same.
- learn 5ths - the note with the same finger position you touch, but on the string to either side
- 3rd fingered note = the next lower open string (in 1st position)
- 4th fingered = next higher open string (in 1st position)
- the flat of the E, A & D string = high 4th finger, next lower string
- the # of one note = the flat of the next higher pitch (do they teach this, because we've had discussions that they aren't really the same)
- write in the finger & string used on a copy of CURRENTLY USED sheet music
- write in note names on blank fingerboard chart
Think VISUAL CHARTS: use while practicing to memorize, can be VERY helpful.
I would also COLOR each of the 4 normal fingering position dots on charts the same as different colored finger tapes.
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Does the instructor have a “system” she uses to teach the students the note placements on the fingerboard? Since the notes per finger change depending on position, unless you are only dealing with first position, associating a note with a finger, would not work. I am thinking maybe work with the instructor to enforce note locations on the fingerboard. Maybe, (s)he could pick a string to assign each week and at the beginning of each lesson, ask for the notes on the fingerboard for the string in question for the week. The next week, do the two strings, the next week do the three strings, the next week do all strings. Refresh each week before lessons. But, maybe, find a plan with the instructor.
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@wtw -
I hear your pain - I used to feel the same way!
Having Grandkids has helped me tremendously! They make me want to rethink the way I was taught (also piano as a child, which didn't work) so I can help them have a better experience. 😊
I end up learning in the process! 🤗
@JimandThomas -
Thanx for starting this EXCELLENT TOPIC, btw!
- Emily
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Thank you everyone, there really are some great pieces of advice. Yes, even though he is playing in third position now, it is the first position we are currently working on with regards to the note issue. I think out of all the tips, saying the notes first will be our first endeavor. Thank you so much. By the way, his teacher is one of those teachers that gives him an unheard of amount of work each week and spends very little time going over everything with him, which is a shame. I love picking up the slack but at 60 dollars an hour, it kind of rubs me the wrong way.
Jim(Thomases Dad)
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@JimandThomas -
I believe memorizing all this is a difficult task, but the more different ways you can reinforce this info, the better it will be retained.
If you think about it, we originally learn the letters of the alphabet and numbers by not only saying them, but by also by: writing them, singing them in songs, playing games with them, and then we practice using them in practical ways for everyday living.
🤔... so, someway to make a game of it?
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These exercises by Fiddlerman are actually helpful. I posted the link elsewhere, but here is the link
Studies Etudes and Music - Free Etudes by Fiddlerman
The items I am talking about with this link are the exercises for the natural notes on the G, D, A and E strings. They actually are very nice melodies.
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I was going to say something similar to mouse. Something simple like Sevcik has helped me a lot with my note reading.
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@JimandThomas -
I wanted to ask - doesn't the Teacher call out the octave (ASPN) to play - with the note, e.g., Bb3, Bb4, or Bb5?
🤔...was wondering why I haven't been able to find a fingering chart written for Violin, Viola or Cello with ASPN - just realized how silly it is to not include that info on a chart.
So, how do they teach which 'Bb' to play without sheet music?
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Thomas B. said
Thank you everyone, there really are some great pieces of advice. Yes, even though he is playing in third position now, it is the first position we are currently working on with regards to the note issue. I think out of all the tips, saying the notes first will be our first endeavor. Thank you so much. By the way, his teacher is one of those teachers that gives him an unheard of amount of work each week and spends very little time going over everything with him, which is a shame. I love picking up the slack but at 60 dollars an hour, it kind of rubs me the wrong way.
Have you thought of trying a different teacher? I’m zeroing in on your last two sentences, and to me you sound dissatisfied with the teacher. However, it could be that the teacher recognizes his talent and is pushing him accordingly. I was only ever able to afford 30 minute lessons, but my teachers always felt like they shoved an hour into those 30 minutes to give me challenges, lol.
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@damfino You are correct on all counts. I am dissatisfied with her but she is now the concert master and is one of the best in Maine. She pushes him extraordinarily by giving him 5-6 pieces a week to learn. although he doesnt need to get them right in such a short time, he does because he is a wicked fast learner and is really striving for the first chair position which she is telling him he will have in the fall if his playing continues to get better. as for @ELCBK she playes the b flat and he copies it ...thats it. Thomas and I will be also looking at @Fiddlerman studies today before practice @Mouse
Jim(Thomases Dad)
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@JimandThomas -
Ah ha!
I didn't realize she was playing the pitch!
That's EXCELLENT ear training!!! 🤗
Will come in handy when Thomas hears a Fiddler play something magical and wants to learn it... but, I'm pretty sure that's not the Teacher's original intent. 🤣
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Thomas B. said
@damfino You are correct on all counts. I am dissatisfied with her but she is now the concert master and is one of the best in Maine. She pushes him extraordinarily by giving him 5-6 pieces a week to learn. although he doesnt need to get them right in such a short time, he does because he is a wicked fast learner and is really striving for the first chair position which she is telling him he will have in the fall if his playing continues to get better. as for @ELCBK she playes the b flat and he copies it ...thats it. Thomas and I will be also looking at @Fiddlerman studies today before practice @Mouse
I was thinking about this and, while I don't want to overstep, perhaps, maybe, Thomas' concertmaster needs to take a moment and realize that Thomas is just a young boy and her needs for the orchestra should always come in second to Thomas still being a boy. I also seem to remember that he's under the minimum age for the orchestra at that so pushing him this hard is possibly too much.
First chair can wait a year if necessary, or even 2 years, but pushing a young boy to the extent that it's making you unhappy about it needs to be discussed with his teacher/concertmaster. The orchestra should come second, if not third, to Thomas growing up (and doing well in school) first.
At least those are my thoughts, but I'm not his dad or his concertmaster.
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ELCBK said
@RDP -This is NOT an adult Orchestra - and if Kids aren't challenged, their interest will die.
They are a fairly new teacher/student team, but you bring up a good point - it certainly wouldn't hurt to ask to discuss with the Teacher what that level of challenge needs to be for Thomas. 😊
It's not my intent to tell anyone how to raise their children. Especially since I have zero experience at it.
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