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I'm having problems getting rid of my crunching noises while I'm playing. You know, that sound when the bow is too heavy and moving too slowly. The main culprit is my left hand gripping the neck too tightly.
I've been working on relaxing my hand but I'm not having much success. Today I realized that part of the possible reason is that my violin isn't stable on my shoulder. Which results in my having to hold it in place and that means I have to grab the neck. Which adds tension, which causes my violin to move when I'm fingering, which results in my crunching sounds.
Anyone have any tips on keeping my violin in place? It slides toward my deltoid muscles and then down my chest if I'm not hanging on to it. I added a grippy silicone wrap to my shoulder rest but that's not helping enough. My cheek rest is already a tall one and it's comfortable at that height, I just can't get the violin to stay put.
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@RDP This is just a thought, or a couple of thoughts:
1. How flat are you trying to keep the violin on your shoulder? I ask because when I started, I thought it was to be sitting right on the shoulder, so I was trying to keep it as level as possible to the floor. Upon watching videos, I noticed violinists (and violists, for that matter) have it at different angles to the floor and at different heights against the chest and shoulder. That said, maybe try it at where it wants to be? Maybe it and your body are telling you something about where they want the violin to be? So rather than fight it, hence tensing up, try it where it wants to be.
2. If #1 is not the answer, the Bon Musica shoulder rest has a nice “hook” for over the shoulder. When I used it, I found it quite comfortable and very adjustable. I have noticed professionals using it. Now, it will make the violin not so free to move or flow with the beat, so to speak. I used it at the beginning. When I became more comfortable and secure with holding the violin, I found it too restrictive, but it helped me become more confident with holding my violin.
Hope these ideas help you.
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I understand completely! I use the Bon music I’ve tried wolf and Kun but like mouse says it has a hook so it says put. It’s so frustrating because all you want to do is get on and play, not faff about with the violin falling off. All I can suggest is watching the vids on you tube. Lora from red desert violin has a good one . I can’t say I’m perfectly comfortable but I’m the best I’ve ever been after a lot of faffing. I’m certainly no where near just resting it there and letting it move. Good luck I bet you will get there !
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@RDP Everyone is physically different, so everyone finds a different shoulder rest/chin rest combo comfortable. And it may change over time.
Tension is never good, so you may need to change both your shoulder rest and/or chin rest. Gripping/tension will not only result in pain, but will restrict your motion on the violin, & you may find yourself frustrated in your efforts to progress.
If you find that the violin is sliding down your chest because your left arm is drifting more toward the front of you as you play (i.e., your drifting the violin scroll toward the front of you), then you may find a center mount chinrest more comfortable.
Just my experience (again, everyone is different): I used to play with a center chinrest (Flesch center mount with hump). And with this chinrest, I used the Comford shoulder cradle (shoulder rest).
As time went on, I decided I was not as comfortable (when I started shifting, & I started trying vibrato), so I tried different chinrests, deciding on one that is somewhere in between a side mount & a center mount called “The Wave” (Wave I, 1” height).
Along with the chinrest, I needed a different shoulder rest, & I settled on the Bon Musica because of its stability, & modified it slightly (in pic, red cosmetic sponge to raise the part that rests on my chest a little).
I’ve been comfortable with the Wave & the Bon Musica for several years now. I play with the violin pointed more toward the front, & I like a chinrest that has a “hump” or ridge (both the Flesch & the Wave I’ve used have these) that I can grip beside my jaw bone – this may not be comfortable for everyone. Both the Comford & the Bon Musica offer stability I’ve wanted to free my left hand to shift & do vibrato.
But who knows if I’ll change again.
I do find myself moving my shoulder into the violin & back more to get full bow strokes (not necessarily a bad thing—but the Bon Musica restricts motion a bit). I’ve also lost 35lbs in the last six months, finding it easier to get my arm in a better position for vibrato, which I was having trouble with trying to do comfortably.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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I had a similar problem until I got the Holstein Freedom chinrest. For me, the problem was my chin didn't hold the viola in place well enough (I have a beard, in case you didn't notice in my videos! lol). This one hooks under my jawbone to give me the control I need.
Obviously, the proper shoulder rest is important, too.
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I do not think the Holstein Freedom, as comfortable as it is, would help the OP. He stated he has a high chinrest, the Holstein Freedom is not a high chinrest.
It is so hard to get a setup that suits and is comfortable 😵💫.
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Everyone’s setup is different based on our own physical differences and preferences, so we can throw out what works for us, but you need to focus on what you’re looking for. It’s a lot like buying shoes.
When you practice next, maybe something simple, so you can pay special attention to your set up instead of your playing to figure out what you like/dislike. You said you like your chin rest, so maybe ignore that and pay attention to your shoulder rest. What feels good, what feels bad. what do you wish it could do that it doesn’t? Then look for shoulder rests that seem like it might fit the bill. If you have a local shop, you could go try them on first.
When I did this, is when I realized I had way too much tension in my neck it was because of my chin rest, so I don’t play with one; and played around with the angle I have my shoulder rest until I learned what position made it sit most comfortably. I have my box of shoulder rests I didn’t like, we all end up with that, lol. I sometimes throw them on to see if I might like them now, and usually still don’t, lol.
I don’t like shoe shopping, and I don’t like shoulder rest shopping, so I didn’t enjoy this process, lol, and was happy when I was done (until I end up needing a change again).
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Mouse said
@RDP This is just a thought, or a couple of thoughts:1. How flat are you trying to keep the violin on your shoulder? I ask because when I started, I thought it was to be sitting right on the shoulder, so I was trying to keep it as level as possible to the floor. Upon watching videos, I noticed violinists (and violists, for that matter) have it at different angles to the floor and at different heights against the chest and shoulder. That said, maybe try it at where it wants to be? Maybe it and your body are telling you something about where they want the violin to be? So rather than fight it, hence tensing up, try it where it wants to be.
2. If #1 is not the answer, the Bon Musica shoulder rest has a nice “hook” for over the shoulder. When I used it, I found it quite comfortable and very adjustable. I have noticed professionals using it. Now, it will make the violin not so free to move or flow with the beat, so to speak. I used it at the beginning. When I became more comfortable and secure with holding the violin, I found it too restrictive, but it helped me become more confident with holding my violin.
Hope these ideas help you.
🐭
If you look at my videos, that's where I usually need it to be so I can get my stiff wrist to rotate enough to finger without pain. Unfortunately, what ends up happening is that the violin is sliding down my chest to the point I'm eventually bowing between my thighs on the E string. To prevent that I have to grip the neck. Which causes me to not be able to finger the lower strings and causes pain in my forearm. Not to mention the fact that I can't rotate my hand around the neck without moving the violin at the same time.
Try placing your bow on the strings, griping the neck tightly, and then rotate your hand to finger on the G string without releasing the neck. When the violin moves, it'll cause that crunching noise even if your bow arm is stationary. That's the problem I'm having. (At least in part. the other part is that because the violin is constantly moving around it's not consistently in the same location all the time so I wind up bowing double stops because I'm bowing where the violin should be but isn't.)
I'll look into the Bon Musica. I also found a local violin teacher. I still have to reach out to him but he may also have other insights into getting me over the problems I'm having.
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I am not an expert, but based on when I used the Bon Musica, I think you will find it works. It is very stabilizing. I am not sure if the lowest setting for it will make it too high for your high chinrest, but then if it does, a lower chinrest would solve that. At least you will have stabilized it to where you need it.
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Mouse said
I am not an expert, but based on when I used the Bon Musica, I think you will find it works. It is very stabilizing. I am not sure if the lowest setting for it will make it too high for your high chinrest, but then if it does, a lower chinrest would solve that. At least you will have stabilized it to where you need it.🐭
Where do you store it in the case? I keep my violin in its case whenever I'm not playing it and there's not a lot of space in there for something as large as the Bon Musica seems to be.
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A lot of people put them into a small drawstring bag and attach it to the case handle. I hang my instruments on a wall rack, and keep accessories in a bin with my music. Hope this helps.
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I keep a little decorative basket to toss my shoulder rest, tuner and rosin in when I’m done practicing.
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I bought a case specifically for shoulder rests which works very well.
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JohnG said
I bought a case specifically for shoulder rests which works very well.
Hmmm... I think I could work something out with this setup. Maybe riveting a D ring or 2 onto the case cover in a strategic place to attach the bag to would work to keep everything together and tidy.
Thanks for this tip.
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damfino said
I keep a little decorative basket to toss my shoulder rest, tuner and rosin in when I’m done practicing.
I have a herd of cats. Cats and valuable items which resemble cat toys should never be allowed in the same room together without strict supervision at all times. If you can't do that, lock up your stuff or it'll disappear forever.
Trust me on this, a herd of cats isn't trustworthy. Not even if they tell you that they are. And see that cat over there in the corner? He's not sleeping, he's faking it and waiting for you to take your eye off your car keys for half a second.
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Haha, yes, I get that. I used to have 5 cats, very mischievous critters. Fortunately, if they ever got near my fiddle stuff, nothing in the basket is delicate so they didn’t find it interesting.
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RDP said
I'm having problems getting rid of my crunching noises while I'm playing. You know, that sound when the bow is too heavy and moving too slowly. The main culprit is my left hand gripping the neck too tightly.I've been working on relaxing my hand but I'm not having much success. Today I realized that part of the possible reason is that my violin isn't stable on my shoulder. Which results in my having to hold it in place and that means I have to grab the neck. Which adds tension, which causes my violin to move when I'm fingering, which results in my crunching sounds.
Anyone have any tips on keeping my violin in place? It slides toward my deltoid muscles and then down my chest if I'm not hanging on to it. I added a grippy silicone wrap to my shoulder rest but that's not helping enough. My cheek rest is already a tall one and it's comfortable at that height, I just can't get the violin to stay put.
It's a bit difficult to give specific advice without seeing you, but here's my experience with violin position:
I've always played without a shoulder rest, I never hold the violin only with shoulder/chin, I let the violin sit on my collarbone, always sustain the violin with my left hand, and place my chin on the chinrest the help stabilize the violin.
Placing the center of the violin on my collarbone is the most stable position for me (chinrest in the middle over the tailpiece), moving the violin forward/placing my chin on the left side of the tailpiece causes the violin to slide down my chest.
Keeping the scroll at the proper height also helps with stability. Raising the scroll a bit shifts the violin weight towards the shoulder and helps with shifting positions especially shifting down, having the violin scroll too slow shifts the violin weight towards the left hand, can cause left hand tension, and will result in the violin sliding down on my chest.
This is one of several topics I probably should make a video about at some point, hopefully I'll have time for it soon.
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@VirtuosoCapixaba -
I think a video stressing those points you made would be GREAT for all the beginners we get here on the forum! Many have trouble holding the violin and the Fiddlerman tutorial is very good, but you might be able to get people to see things differently. 🤗
@RDP -
Have you been able to contact the local Teacher to help you get on track?
Even if you do have a death grip with your left hand on the violin neck, your 'noises' still come from your bowing/bow hold. So, you may also have tension anywhere from your bow to your neck.
Maybe focus on relaxing one part of your body at a time - to find the full extent of all your tension.
Hope you'll be kind to yourself - you really haven't been playing very long (sit if you are afraid you'll drop your violin). It's taken me several months, much longer than I expected, just to get used to a change - from Violin to Viola size!
Doesn't hurt to revisit basic tutorials - think it's easy to overlook things with so much going on.
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ELCBK said
@VirtuosoCapixaba -I think a video stressing those points you made would be GREAT for all the beginners we get here on the forum! Many have trouble holding the violin and the Fiddlerman tutorial is very good, but you might be able to get people to see things differently. 🤗
@RDP -
Have you been able to contact the local Teacher to help you get on track?
Even if you do have a death grip with your left hand on the violin neck, your 'noises' still come from your bowing/bow hold. So, you may also have tension anywhere from your bow to your neck.
Maybe focus on relaxing one part of your body at a time - to find the full extent of all your tension.
Hope you'll be kind to yourself - you really haven't been playing very long (sit if you are afraid you'll drop your violin). It's taken me several months, much longer than I expected, just to get used to a change - from Violin to Viola size!
Doesn't hurt to revisit basic tutorials - think it's easy to overlook things with so much going on.
How to Hold a Violin - Fiddlerman Tutorial
I haven't reached out to the teacher yet. Life and work (and cats) are getting in the way.
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