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I went over the Violin Lab Vibrato video again, then watched several of her other Left Hand-related videos. One important point she makes in all of those videos, she expects the violin to be completely immobilized between the shoulder & head with a shoulder rest - absolutely no weight or effect on the left hand, so the thumb & fingers are completely free to move.
Unfortunately, having my violin/viola locked in one place is not feasible for me. I'm working on more instrument stability at the moments I need it most - some kind of compromise.
Great new help with this Left Thumb topic in the Fourth Finger Thread!
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I don't advocate completely immobilizing the instrument between your head and shoulders. But it should be possible to free the left hand while still allowing your left thumb to hold some weight. The challenge, though, is that your thumb needs to be firm in one direction (vertically) but flexible in others (rotationally). In the vibrato motion, the contact point between thumb and neck acts as a pivot point.
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John Hartford
Andrew
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@Gordon Shumway -
If you watch John Hartford play you'll see he has HUGE HANDS, let's the neck rest all the way down in the crook of the thumb & doesn't need to move his hand because his fingers reach across all strings just fine! ...don't think he ever uses vibrato - have you ever seen him use it?
Back to 12:54 in the OP video with Tobiah Murphy, the Fourth Finger Thread - find the hand position that works for your own type of hand.
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I posted the Hartford photo because of the way the thumb is nowhere near the scroll, not because of how much it sticks up. Also I thought his bow looked instructive.
Andrew
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Sorry I haven't been around much; and most of this autumn I shall be away on family business.
Someone on VCom posted this as a perfect lesson on how to use your left thumb, and I agree. (I joked that some of it requires the violin to be velcroed to your shoulder pad, but someone didn't get the joke)
Andrew
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@Gordon Shumway -
That's a very helpful video - thank you!
Hadn't heard of Ida Haendel before - she was a remarkable woman, totally immersed in her violin. There's 2 interesting documentaries about her on YT.
Wish I could get my arm under my violin like that! It's torture, unless I'm bent over or holding the scroll above my head! Not so sure I'd have an easier time of it even if I could play standing up... might as well learn to juggle while I'm at it. 🙄
Related thread: https://fiddlerman.com/forum/l.....mb/page-3/
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ELCBK said
Wish I could get my arm under my violin like that! It's torture,
I tried some arm-stretching a couple of weeks ago without a violin and really hurt my left shoulder bending my left elbow under, so anything like that should be done with thought and care and probably with a violin to limit how far you stretch.
Andrew
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Gordon Shumway said
I find my thumb has to be opposite my middle finger for best hand shape and pinky reach, but it depends on your hands.
Scrub that. Nowadays I have my thumb opposite my index finger - bringing it too far towards the bridge creates tension. Initially I felt my thumb assisted my pinky reach, but it's probably more about bringing the elbow under and positioning the whole hand correctly.
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@Gordon Shumway -
So, what does your teacher recommend?
How my handshape changes & moves dictates where my thumb ends up - not the other way around, which works fine for me. After trying different ways to deal with it, I'm now only concerned with keeping my thumb (and thumb muscles in my palm) relaxed. ...plus, I have a wider fingerboard to navigate (and not large hands).
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ELCBK said
@Gordon Shumway -So, what does your teacher recommend?
How my handshape changes & moves dictates where my thumb ends up - not the other way around, which works fine for me. After trying different ways to deal with it, I'm now only concerned with keeping my thumb (and thumb muscles in my palm) relaxed. ...plus, I have a wider fingerboard to navigate (and not large hands).
She recommended doing what I now do, which is why I do it. Your approach is OK, in that the thumb is passive, not active. An active thumb creating tension between the wrist and the thumb's first joint is to be avoided. Arpeggios are the best way to practise timing the thumb's trips under the neck.
Andrew
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I noticed my thumb was getting sore, I've spent the last week or so just relaxing a bit more while playing and that is helping a lot, though probably not too helpful for anyone as an actual suggestion. Relax more. Play smoother. All great. But not necessarily helpful to hear. 
Where I noticed it for me though, was specifically playing where my middle finger would be 1/2 step from index. No real issues on full step, but certainly would become limiting on pieces if one were to try and avoid that fingering.
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