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Rising Left Pinky Finger
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (10 votes) 
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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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November 17, 2018 - 6:37 pm
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Andrew Fryer said
@Shane "Chicken" Wang You have to choose a teacher with good paper quals, and they don't come cheap. In the UK it's pretty easy - you find someone who has a performer's diploma and/or a teacher's diploma (many have both) from the RCM or the RAM.

When I was a kid I was on a piano scholarship, and so I was lucky enough to have such teachers provided for me.

But my experience of guitarists on a CG forum I won't name, is that some guitarists will take a lesson from a guitarist who has had one lesson from a guitarist who has had one lesson!

I'm lucky - my violin teacher is a friend with a performer's diploma on the viola and who charges me mates' rates and cooks for me, lol!  

Firstly, I can't even find a woman here that knows how to cook.

Secondly,We have plenty of those One lesson teachers here, but no real teachers. I searched the internet for local violin teachers and it gave me a dance studio looking for instructors.

I live between Memphis,Tn, home of Elvis Presley and the delta blues, and Nashville Tn, home of the Grand Ole Opry and country music. Seems you have to be in school to learn strings here. I'm ready to get closer to civilization.

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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November 17, 2018 - 7:02 pm
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@AndrewH Love love love violin lab. beth is amazing.

I did catch Allison Sparrow showing 2 different ways to do finger vibrato and neither one made a whole lot of since to me.

I may be wrong but it seems that it would be easier to land just below the note and push into it than to land on the note and pull away from it,( Sparrow technique ). In one video she showed a hand vibrato with the finger going sideways against both knuckles. with arthritis that's impossible for me to do. 

 

Sidenote, I've been trying to learn amazing grace, and a few minute ago I was watching Fiddlerman comparing master violins for a customer and he was playing Amazing Grace in the video. I walked through the living room and my mother says you are really getting good with that fiddle. 

I said thanks and kept going.

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pchoppin
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November 17, 2018 - 7:51 pm
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markcobb said
@AndrewH Love love love violin lab. beth is amazing.

I did catch Allison Sparrow showing 2 different ways to do finger vibrato and neither one made a whole lot of since to me.

I may be wrong but it seems that it would be easier to land just below the note and push into it than to land on the note and pull away from it,( Sparrow technique ). In one video she showed a hand vibrato with the finger going sideways against both knuckles. with arthritis that's impossible for me to do. 

@Shane "Chicken" Wang I watched this vid and you’re absolutely right.  This is completely improper.  Because the ear hears the higher note intuitively, the proper vibrato is played pushing from low to high... not high to low as she shows.  

Sideways vibrato is poor technique as well.  

 

Sidenote, I've been trying to learn amazing grace, and a few minute ago I was watching Fiddlerman comparing master violins for a customer and he was playing Amazing Grace in the video. I walked through the living room and my mother says you are really getting good with that fiddle. 

I said thanks and kept going.  

That’s funny!!!!  I don’t care where you’re from!!!!!

- Pete -

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Gordon Shumway
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November 18, 2018 - 1:22 am
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Galamian suggests the easiest way to start vibrato is in third position on the A string with your second finger on the E. But only start it after you have perfected your intonation. My teacher prevents me from vibratoing at the moment. My next lesson will be mid January, and I'm going to aim for beginning vibrato after that, with her permission. That means I have a lot of practice to do in the next 8 weeks!

Good diaphragm vibrato on the oboe takes about 6 months of daily practice to learn, so I expect to allot 6 months of next year to learning good violin vibrato and tone, although hand movement should be easier than diaphragm control. Should be! pie_in_the_face-2223

 

(however, I'll be spending Christmas with a music hater, and my mother is due for a hip replacement in December and my father will have micro-surgery in January, so if I only manage 8 hours' practice in the next 8 weeks, I won't be surprised!)

Andrew

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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November 18, 2018 - 2:10 am
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Andrew Fryer said
Good diaphragm vibrato on the oboe takes about 6 months of daily practice to learn, so I expect to allot 6 months of next year to learning good violin vibrato and tone, although hand movement should be easier than diaphragm control. Should be! pie_in_the_face-2223

I don't know why I thought my musical experience would transfer over, it's been a hurdle in many ways and a blessing in others. I can't remember the oboe set up but I remember it's a double reed and as expensive as my ex wifes taste in jewelry. Some of the fingerings were the same as saxophone, but that was it. We learned diaphragm vibrato because it was easier in soprano, bite vibrato in alto down. I thought the shaking of the hand would be easier too, but,(always a but, right?), when my left hand wants to shake, my right hand wants to wave. It tries to match what my left hand is doing. brings the bow to a dead stop, and jerks with the action of my left.

I understand what your teacher is doing, once you get passed thinking about your bow hand it'll want to work independent of your left. I'm sure those dexterity exercises are helping with that also. On one hand I, and you too obviously, want to be extremely good with the violin, but we still remember how easy it was to hit those keys.

When your just tapping your notes out on the fingerboard, not bowing, have you caught yourself humming the notes and listening to the vibration through the corpus? (I think that's right, corpus, I keep wanting to call the body a carcass. Which further explains my playing at the moment.)

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Gordon Shumway
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November 18, 2018 - 2:22 am
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markcobb said
when my left hand wants to shake, my right hand wants to wave.

Yeah, I remember having that problem at first, but it went away pretty quickly.

markcobb said
When your just tapping your notes out on the fingerboard...have you caught yourself humming the notes...?

No, I think Glenn Gould is the only person known for that.

Andrew

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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November 18, 2018 - 11:41 am
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@Gordon Shumway I appreciate you mentioning Glenn Gould. started watching a documentary on his life and He is a fascinating character. Will be trying the Galamian approach before long. Thanks for that also.

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Gordon Shumway
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November 18, 2018 - 12:02 pm
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Andrew Fryer said
I find that to get a strong, clean, pure tone requires quite a lot of work on careful pinky placement and controlled pressure. Slightly less with the ring finger, but still a little more than the first and second fingers. 

Actually, I'm starting to suspect that it's partly to do with the sounding point needing to be slightly nearer the bridge even though I'm still only in first positon.

Does anyone have any ideas on whether that suspicion is correct?

@Shane "Chicken" Wang You can get both of Gould's recordings of the Goldberg variations (1955 and 1981) on a double CD. It's fabulous. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pr.....#038;psc=1

Andrew

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Irv
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November 18, 2018 - 12:39 pm
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I completely agree with your view of the 1955 recording.  The later version, not so much.  Gould’s version of the Beethoven 6th Symphony transcription is another interesting recording.  He wildly varied the standard tempo’s of the 5 piano concertos of Beethoven’s.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Fiddlerman
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November 19, 2018 - 1:46 pm
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Mark, that thing with your mom was funny. LOL

I've known great violinists that lift their pinky's while they play by the way. We had a section leader in a full-time professional orchestra that I used to play in who lifted his pinky high and often. Others in the section used to laugh and make fun of this behind his back but he played quite well even with this slight handicap. 🙂
There comes a point in fast playing that you will not have time to lift your fingers much and still get the timing right but if you are not at that point, don't worry about it. Obviously, it's best to keep all your fingers close to the fingerboard and as close as you can but you can still play great if your fingers are coming up high. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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