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Regulars
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I'm having some issues with scales. Not playing them, but understanding them.
I kind of sort of get how the G major scale is based on G and so are the D and A scales but only on the surface. C major is a mystery. Minor scales are too.
Is there a video or video series which explains the how/what/why/where for these without getting overly complicated and so technical only a conservatory student would have a difficult time understanding even a quarter of it? I think part of my problem is that I don't understand octaves and how they relate to scales. This results in me just adjusting my finger positions for certain notes depending on which scale is being used without knowing why. I think there's more to know and that knowing some of it might help me play better. Or at least understand more about what I'm playing.
Help?
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@RDP I know I mentioned this guy before somewhere--I think he does a good job with music theory. He has several videos in his music theory series—this link lists the individual video lessons with a description of what he covers in them:
https://howtoplaypiano.ca/lear.....sic-theory
He specifically talks about scales in Lesson 10, using a C scale (starting in the video at 3:15) to demonstrate how a major scale is constructed:
https://howtoplaypiano.ca/lear.....rn-formula
His lessons are sequential, so it may be helpful to refer to previous video lessons if something he says isn’t clear to you.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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I think it's easier to understand & see patterns on a piano keyboard, because pianos are set up in octaves. So, helps to know what the notes on a piano keyboard are.
For Major or Minor Scales: they start on ANY note on the piano keyboard, made up of 8 notes that follow an ascending pitch pattern of whole steps & half step intervals (either a Major or Minor pattern). The 8th note is double the frequency of the 1st pitch. The distance between the 1st note and the 8th - is an octave.
This site may help you understand the patterns: https://pianosecrets.com/list-.....al-scales/
This site can help you hear the patterns: https://www.musicca.com/scales
And this site can show you how all the scales relate on the keyboard, starting with ALL the Major scales, which all have the same formula (seen bottom of Major Scale page): https://pianoscales.org/major.html
Next, orient yourself with where Middle 'C' is on the piano vs Middle 'C' on the Violin (3rd finger on the 'G' string).
Hope some of this helps.
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If C major is a mystery, then forget about everything but major scales for the time being.
I kind of sort of get how the G major scale is based on G
"Tone" means full step, e.g. D to E
"semitone" means half step, e.g. D to Eb or E to F. (consecutive notes on a piano, ignoring the colours of the keys)
Every major scale is constructed as follows: -
TONE, TONE, SEMITONE, TONE, TONE, TONE, SEMITONE. (TTSTTTS)
C major is then CDEFGABC, the white notes on a piano from C to C.
CD=tone, DE=tone,EF=semitone,FG=tone,GA=tone,AB=tone,BC=semitone.
G major isn't based on G, it begins on G.
It's GABCDEFG. Always those notes (a piano's white keys) always in that sequence.
BUT, that F has to be F# for the TTSTTTS sequence to exist.
If you play it, you will hear it.
If the above is a mystery, I posted some links to some online virtual keyboards somewhere.
===========================================
Every scale is the same.
Gb, for instance: -
GABCDEFG, always that note sequence - the white notes on a piano.
But the following notes are flat: GABCDE, resulting in TTSTTTS
===========================================
Apart from keyboards, I recommend the chromatic pitchpipe I got on Amazon. Or maybe your phone has a tone generator app?
Andrew
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On guitar when playing scales we learn shapes, for instance the five different shapes of the blues scale, same for major and minor, once you know these shapes by playing them at different pointqs on the neck but using the same hand shapes you can play all the scales.
On violin hand shapes show you how to play the scales, there are lots of videos about hand shapes on you tube but nere is one of them, julia bushkova has a whole in depth series on this and she is one of the worlds greatest violin teachers. Tqhe shapes help muscle memory in qyoir left hand, you still have to train your ears for intonation, do this with the ringing notes.
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Yes, perhaps guitar - or mandolin - frets are easier to understand than piano keys, when the discussion is about what steps and half steps are. Perhaps I am overfamiliar with the piano.
Andrew
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Is this helpful? Theres also a video out there that demonstrates in 1st position playing G arpeggio to check 1st finger intonation on the A string..playing the B note. Cant find the video, but its something Michael 'O demonstrated. couldve been a string or violin test.
But this is about scales.
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Gordon Shumway said
If C major is a mystery, then forget about everything but major scales for the time being.I kind of sort of get how the G major scale is based on G
"Tone" means full step, e.g. D to E
"semitone" means half step, e.g. D to Eb or E to F. (consecutive notes on a piano, ignoring the colours of the keys)
Every major scale is constructed as follows: -
TONE, TONE, SEMITONE, TONE, TONE, TONE, SEMITONE. (TTSTTTS)
C major is then CDEFGABC, the white notes on a piano from C to C.
CD=tone, DE=tone,EF=semitone,FG=tone,GA=tone,AB=tone,BC=semitone.
G major isn't based on G, it begins on G.
It's GABCDEFG. Always those notes (a piano's white keys) always in that sequence.
BUT, that F has to be F# for the TTSTTTS sequence to exist.
If you play it, you will hear it.
If the above is a mystery, I posted some links to some online virtual keyboards somewhere.
===========================================
Every scale is the same.
Gb, for instance: -
GABCDEFG, always that note sequence - the white notes on a piano.
But the following notes are flat: GABCDE, resulting in TTSTTTS
===========================================
Apart from keyboards, I recommend the chromatic pitchpipe I got on Amazon. Or maybe your phone has a tone generator app?
Ok, this helped a whole bunch, and I can see where I need to put in some study time, but it's a lot clearer now.
Simple thing really. The scale begins on the note and follows the pattern TTSTTTS. Major or minor it's always that pattern. My job is to know whether the notes necessary for following that pattern are natural, sharp, or flat. Sharp or flat dictate the finger positions while playing. Simple. Until I have to execute it. Then, it's not so simple.
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@RDP -
Major scale (1) and Minor scales (3) - are different patterns (1st link I gave you).
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Major scales are all the same pattern, minor scales are a different pattern, and with minor scales it depends if its natural, harmonic or melodic minor, each o e has its own pattern.
The finger position isnt dictated by the note being sharp natural or flat, the same pattern is used, this is why scales are composed of different amounts of sharps or flats, C major has neither sharps or flats , for instance, if you play the A major scale starting on the G string, then play the exact same scale starting on the G string but one note higher you would be playing B flat major, or A sharp depending on other things, play it another note higer and you are playing b major, play it another note higher and you are playing c major. The scales always have the same intervals no matter where you play them. The natural minor has a flattened third note so the intervals in that pattern are different, to learn about harmonic and melodic minor you will have to look on the net as they are different again.
For instance the melodic minor has the 6th and 7th note flattened when descending the scale, because when ascending it sound better to raise them and better to flatten when descending.
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RDP said
The scale begins on the note and follows the pattern TTSTTTS. Major or minor it's always that pattern.
As others have said, no, minor is a bit different.
Don't try to remember a TSTS sequence for the minor (no-one does), or you will get memory overload.
Get the majors second nature first.
Then realise that all minors have a flattened third - it's what makes them minor.
The top end of the minor scale has three variants, which is why I say, if C major is a mystery, forget everything but major scales for the time being. Once they are second nature, you will develop an intuitive understanding of minor scales.
Andrew
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I can see that I'm going to have to spend some time on this to get it all correct in my head. Right now I don't have that time. Work, some online classes, violin practice, and a few other life-based things have my head seriously occupied at the moment and my brain is low on processing power.
Once I get some of that cleared away, I'll take the time to study. However, at the moment, I'm clearer than I was when I posted this thread. At least I think I am because it's not bothering me as much.
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