Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Private messaging is working again.
Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
(5 votes) 
Offline
Are you as frustrated as I am with those music lesson books and music books with the glued bindings. Most are that way. I find them, whether thick or thin books, very impractical, annoying, and useless. The pages do not stay open. If you force it by creasing it open, it will not stay closed afterwards. It won’t stay open while using it after creasing it either.
Well, do what I do. Just take it someplace that will turn it into a spiral bound book, spiral, NOT COMB. Make sure they understand that.
There are a couple things to watch out for. The text on the bound edge much be a certain distance from the binding. Some places hear the glue and separate the pages that way and then add the holes necessary for binding and the proper size spiral wire. Those holes created could go through text at that edge if there is not enough clearance.
But, other places, place the book into a machine that neatly and cleanly cuts the edge just on the other side of the glue. This does create a slightly narrower left margin arwa for the holes for the spiral binding wire.
Just ask if they think it will be a problem. If you have a specific page that is over farther, show them.
If there is no issue with left margin space, not a problem.
If the space is limited, you have to decide if the little bit os text that will be missing will be a problem. I think the music itself would be more of an issue with a little dot missing. The holes are small, but there are quite a few.
I find the spiral binding worth it. Have not had any issues. I am going to bring my fiddle books in for spiral binding.
For reference, I have a photo of a book I recommended for learning cello in the “Learning Cello” section. The spiral binding was added to it.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
Interesting. Have you tried to do this on a really thick paperback? I have a couple of music books with between 500-600 pages, really useless to sightread from since they won't stay open. I would love to put these in spirals, but I'm unsure whether or not it would be a good idea to do so.
'Armed with theory, practice becomes meaningful. Through practice, theory becomes fulfilled.' - Egon von Neindorff.
Honorary tenured advisor
Regulars
Offline
Gosh, @cid, you are sure full of good suggestions lately. I try to buy spiral bound books for music when available, but they are usually much more expensive. What does something like this cost...on average?
Jim
Offline
Take it someplace and ask if they have a spiral binding with a big enough circumference for it. Or, divide the book into two books at a chapter somewhere in the middle. You can have a shiny board cover added to the back of the first. Have them make a front cover with the study shiny board with the title and Part 2 (or whatever) on it. It will cost extra. But the binding process does not cost much, at least where I go.
You could even go with three sections. You could use a marker on the cover of the first and say, Part 1, or just make a note of how many books there are, on the first page so you know. Do it on each. Book 1 of 2 or Book 1 of 3, Book 2 of 2 or Book 2 of 3, Book 3 of 3.
You could make a little note in the index where the chapter that starts book 2 is and say starts in Book 2. If there are 3 books, in that index do the same for book 3. Since the index will not be in books 2 and 3, no need for notation for what starts that book. If three books, because there is no index, on the last page, make a note, “Continued in Book 3”
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Offline
@MoonShadows
I don’t have cost figures in my mind. They seem to leave quickly. I remember terms like extremely affordable, affordable or no way.
This is extremely affordable. I have been going to a name brand office store but will a local Mom and Pop next time. I don’t know if they do it, but an calling to ask. When we lived in Vegas we went of Office Max or whatever. They were bought by that other office store. Back here we have been going to Staples. Staples did a much better job.
I have been doing this for a long time with books. The Pfaff store where I bought my sewing/embroidery machines sold a techniques book for the machines. If was glue bound. Not good. She said we could pay the cost of spiral bound and she would get them spiral bound. I did that.
Spiral bound to her was was that stupid bothersome comb! You could not fold the pages over to behind the book to save table space because of the spine on the comb. AND, and this is a big AND, the comb allow the pages to slip out. Do NOT do comb bindings.
The comb binding process makes little rectangle holes in the book for the comb to go through. I took the techniques book with the comb binding to Staples and had them remove the comb and use the same holes for the spiral binding. Looks wonky, but is much better. A couple other ladies did that after they saw mine. Others said they wished the owner had done actual spiral binding. Well, they could do what I did for way less than a fat quarter of material costs. Give up a fat quarter purchase and do it. 😂
Seriously, it is not expensive, at least around here. It is such an improvement. I have another book this size, with cello exercises, that I also did it to, as well as many others.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Honorary tenured advisor
Regulars
Offline
Thanks for the follow up, cid. We have a Staples a few miles from where we live. I have to go there often to send packages for our home business. I will check them out.
Jim
Offline
You are welcome.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
Ugh, comb bindings are the worst. I've a couple piano books with combs. Noisy, pages get stuck, or worse, falling out. Not to mention it's hard to get them to lay flat . It's probably the worst invention in bookbinding, just makes my annoyed just thinking about it.
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll have to do some research see if I can get this done locally. Did a quick search now and it seems like 300 pages is max most places so I guess I'll have to split the books into two parts. Not much of a problem really. They will probably fit better at the piano music stand anyway so.
'Armed with theory, practice becomes meaningful. Through practice, theory becomes fulfilled.' - Egon von Neindorff.
Offline
Every time I get it done, I say, “You are talking actual spiral binding, not that plastic comb.” I want to make sure we are on the same page. Most of the time, they actually show me what they are talking about.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
Dang...lots of comb binding displeasure... .I bought one of those book binding hole punches. I Use comb binding and found it better than the 3 ring binding type. Ive found it handy for keeping my sheet music from classes in. Whenever I need to add a sheet I can put back in this punch which has some teeth that will pull the comb apart and hold it while you add sheets. As long as I don't over fill it works good. It's possible to buy the spiral kit but I don't have the patience to feed them through.
The glued type book conversion is a great idea. Just as an addition..if you purchase books from melbay you can buy the PDF version and email to some of the office supply type chains. They can spiral it that way as well. I haven't used that service but know a student in class that did one that way.
Offline
@ABitRusty and others
What I do with PDF’s, be they music, cooking, sewing or water color related is this.
I buy the plastic sleeves with the three ring binder holes on the side and the opening at the top. I have three ring binders I put them into. I have the lessons and songs from the Online Piano Teacher (does violin too, but goes by that name) like that in a three ring binder. I have the Fiddlerman songs that I downloaded and printed in the sleeves in a three ring binder. Any downloaded and printed music is place in the binders this way. For my music, because I put it on my music stand, I get the skinner three ring binders. I insert narrow strips of paper into binder edge between its plastic cover the the binder with the identification of what is in it.
It is great for my recipes. They are protected. I just take that sleeve out of the binder to my counter.
With my sewing, I will also, at times insert a sample of the material or the item, if small enough, into a sleeve and put it into the binder with the info. I did that with the dog scarves I designed for my younger daughter, and draw string wine bottle bags I designed for my older daughter. I put one with the instructions so I could see how I did it. I had no pattern. I created it. She sold them at a winery she used to work at. I embroidered the winery name on them. Thank goodness she works at another one now. I got tired of making them for her. 😂
Anyway, if I want to make a note on any of the PdF’s, I pull the paper out, make my note on it and slip it back into its sleeve.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Offline
Oh, @ABitRusty I thought about getting the tool and kit to do the spiral myself. Well, then I would have to be able to cut that little edge off to remove the glue, or carefully tear each page out away from the glue. Then I would have to be able to line them up perfectly by edges and use the machine to make the holes, and insert the spiral. I don’t want sloppy work. Let alone, keep a supply of the spiral thingies. Much easier to let the professionals do it.
Of course, in Vegas they put a cover on one book on upside down, or you could say they put the pages after the cover in upside down, depends on your perspective. LOL I spotted it right off. The holes on the cover are now in both edges because they had to re-punch that page and then re-spiral. LOL In the end, because of the goof, they did not charge me. Fine with me. I was expecting a little discount, but they just didn’t charge me. We found a Staples after that. Went there once before we moved back here. Luckily, we have one nearby.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Offline
That's a terrific idea cid. Obviously better than those books that won't stay open.
Going digital is another way to do it for those who are inclined.
Takes a lot of time to set it all up, but you can fit unlimited amounts of sheet music on a tablet or iPad. If you have a device with limited space you can use cloud storage.
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
Offline
@Fiddlerman The pads are nice, but I can seriously see mine fall on the floor. I would also not be able to make my little notes. Before anyone says, “You can use a digital pencil” or whatever, that is not the same as being able to easily jot a note, erase a note, etc. Plus, I have issues reading something I am actually working from off a digital device. I print recipes, sewing project instructions and sheet music.
For those that can do it off digital pads, that is actually terrific. I know some orchestras (probably all major metro ones) and bands, use pads.
My son-in-law got one of those large pads where he worked. That was nice, clunky and not really portable, but that would have been great for music.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
Yep, I hate books that don't lay flat... unless I'm just reading fiction.
Yes, I want to be able to write a note in a margin or quickly drawn a line through something if I want to change instructions.
I like a binder with plastic sleeves - so pages can be added or removed easily & I don't have to worry about the need for reinforcing all the holes made in the paper. The thin, plastic binders are great - until you want to store them upright, but rigid covers (along with all the extra plastic of the sleeves) take up so much more real estate... and I have WAY TOO MANY BOOKS. (lol)
So, it only make sense for me to use a binder only for things I use very frequently.
That said, if I'm offered a choice when looking to purchase a book - I'll pay extra for anything other than a glued binding.
🤔... I look for such immediate gratification, hard to find motivation to learn & keep everything as digital. The idea of having everything stored 'on the cloud' still makes me uneasy - as long as anyone (other than myself) has any control over 'my' data storage. Kinda like I paid a fortune (over many years) buying movies from Comcast - great until I traded my pay service for free ROKU - lost them all. AND, cloud storage services can threaten deletion if certain criteria isn't met. So, I have to worry about safely backing up all cloud data one way or another. Yeah, I may want to trust 'the cloud', but I don't really have control of it - at least a book is in 'MY' hands.
...I better stop here before I spiral down some dystopian rabbit hole.
So, until I can do absolutely every little thing by voice alone and keep strangers/A.I. from touching my stored data:
- rubber bands & clips work great
- FolioKlip works great for even thicker books. I might use it at the bottom of the page 'if' I used a music stand.
- Some music & book stands have page holders - I'm sure sure some are better than others.
Found a couple unique binders, Music Folders for loose pages - holds sheets of music without holes & allows you to write on them - easier to turn pages, but pricey.
- Some will hold 4 pages in a row!
@ABitRusty -
Sounds like your little gadget works.
Got a photo of what you are talking about?
Regulars
Offline
i stopped using that method. pretty much either scan into 4score or use the plastic sleeves like you do.
Regulars
Offline
I have done spiral binding at Office Depot or Staples -- fast and easy.
But I agree w/ Rusty: forScore is the best. No paper to carry around. It’s easy to mark up a score with my own notations, then change the notations whenever I want. Also, I have setlists to organize the scores into groups, e.g. “Bach”, “Working On”, etc.
Regulars
Offline
@ABitRusty & @Strabo -
I SOOOOO ENVY YOU ORGANIZED PEOPLE!
... omg - THANK YOU! You made me think about WHY I can't seem to figure a good way to organize my bookmarks for music-related info - the closest I come to organizing anything is on this forum!
Duh, can't believe I haven't just used a similar layout for my music topic bookmarks on my laptop!
I only took a quick look at forScore, after 1st mentioned. I'm definitely interested, because I didn't realize just how much more this can do for me, beyond organizing sheet music & notes! I see it could make my life easier, but like DAW - it's just... "oh no, something MORE I need to do".
...feel like I've got a chicken lurking inside my head!
Offline
I prefer spiral binding my books. True spiral binding, not those combs.
I have ForScore and gave it a shot. Since I do not normally use downloaded music, I had to make PDF's of those I could do PDF's of, and then put them into ForScore. My printer does that, but it was a pain. My Hal Leonard and Mel What's It books said it was not allowed, so, I wouldn't do those anyway.
I also had to buy a special stand/holder for my iPad Pro. Then, there is the issue of battery life, keeping it charged, or trying to set up near a plug, but not next to a wall so could bow. It was not practical from that stand point.
I also find it hard to markmup and not as easy or quick as when just marking up the sheet music. I have the Fiddlershop magnetic pencils on my stand all ready.
Different strokes for different folks. I was hoping to move away from paper, but for me, not buying a new par, battery was a pain, etc. Just kept me from playing.
🐭
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
@Mouse -
Thanks - appreciate knowing that!
Realistically, I'm lazy & I'll probably just keep learning by listening & count on remembering what changes I make.
I do still run the risk of forgetting - unless I make a recording.
🤔... I am starting to notice some memory issues, but according to my 'learned' playlist, I would have to make almost TWO HUNDRED RECORDINGS!!!
1 Guest(s)
Fiddlerman
Mouse
ELCBK
Jols
Strabo
