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Never gave this much thought - always figured 'Musician' & 'Instrumentalist' were synonymous... guess not!
Seems Merriam-Webster defines 'Instrumentalist' as a player of a musical instrument. The definition of 'Musician' includes 'Instrumentalists'. BUT, what surprised me - it also includes 'Composers', 'Conductors' and 'SINGERS'... what? 😳
DON'T 'Composers', 'Conductors' (and 'SINGERS') live in their own little world? 😵 Musician (Wikipedia)
Found an interesting article at Musician Wave (more like an op-ed), "Instrumentalists vs Musicians – What’s the difference?", that claims it takes 'musicality' for an 'Instrumentalist' to become a 'Musician'... but, a 'Musician' doesn't have to be an 'Instrumentalist'!
Of course, there's absolutely no reason we can't become both!
Thoughts?
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HI.. my name is abitrusty!
I like to play Irish Traditional Music..as best i can.. and sometimes with other people.
I also like to record arrangements of said music and sometimes other styles for fun.
what category does all that fall in?
🙂
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You have defined instrumentalists as a subset of musicians, so by being an instrumentalist you are being both that and a musician. You are an instrumentalist rather than a singer or a composer.
Andrew
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I think the pickiness of words and their meanings can get a little too picky, and often times just falls to the opinion of the person using it. Like potAto and potato.
Since whether if something is considered music is pretty much up to the ear of the beholder, I hate opera and 98% of jazz. I do not consider it music, it is noise and nonsense. That is opinion, mine. Some think I am wrong, some agree and think they are music.
Are the people that perform opera or jazz musicians and/or instrumentalists? Since I consider it noise, I would say no. Likewise, opinion.
I think that sometimes "Mr Webster" crosses the line, delves where he does not belong.
But, your voice, when using it to make music, is a musical instrument. If you have, what is technically an instrument, say piano, in your house and nobody plays piano, is it an instrument? Some would say, no. It is a piece of decorative furniture or a dust collector. It is not used for making music,
My point, categorizing can be too overdone. Besides, there are subsets in many things. There are items that can fall into the main set, and subset, and things that branch out into subsets. Why? because someone wanted to confuse people. They needed to take up an instrument!
For some reason, this confused you:
Seems Merriam-Webster defines 'Instrumentalist' as a player of a musical instrument. The definition of 'Musician' includes 'Instrumentalists'. BUT, what surprised me - it also includes 'Composers', 'Conductors' and 'SINGERS'... what? 😳
If I went along with the thinking in the OP, why should this be a source of confusion. Makes sense to me. A musician is defined as a person who writes, sings or performs music. So, an instrumentalist is a form of musician, as is a composer.
It depends on where you get your information, so we are back to opinion.
This is all opinion, nothing I would lose sleep over. I am going to have a baked potAto with dinner tonight, go ahead and have a baked potato if you want. Makes no difference. I might listen to some music performed by vocalists, instrumentalists, and written by great musicians later. 😂😂😂😂
Right now? I need a Tylenol.
🐭
Disclaimer: This is all the opinion of the Mouse. Disagree or agree, it is all opinion. That was fun!
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By the way, this was fun, I don't usually participate in these, and I did not watch anything linked to. I just said what went through my head based on what I read from members' own words. What say you other members?
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I was surprised by the definition of a 'musician' - a term used in a much broader sense than I had originally realized. ...and I admit I think of a music 'instrumentalist' as a person who specializes in playing a specific instrument, but it really only matters to me if someone is a 'multi-instrumentalist' - otherwise, 'violinist', 'cellist', etc... seems better.
The article in the OP was interesting, but I couldn't agree with/didn't like some aspects, especially the part about a music instrumentalist isn't necessarily a musician. Using the idea of 'musicality' (which is kinda vague) to define the difference between 'Instrumentalist' and 'Musician' seems weird. If instrumentalists didn't have any musicality, wouldn't they just be playing/making noise?
I want to be respectful when choosing words that describe someone's hobby/profession - but, how sensitive does this get?
🤔... don't think anyone just 'plays' music using a musical instrument - we aren't automotons, even though we try to make some actions automatic. A 'performance' can be any task carried out - don't we 'create' music with our instrument?
...maybe not the 1st year. 🤭
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ELCBK said
I was surprised by the definition of a 'musician' - a term used in a much broader sense than I had originally realized. ...and I admit I think of a music 'instrumentalist' as a person who specializes in playing a specific instrument, but it really only matters to me if someone is a 'multi-instrumentalist' - otherwise, 'violinist', 'cellist', etc... seems better.
The term "instrumentalist" is useful in certain contexts. For example, concerto competitions where the winner gets to perform with an orchestra are often open to "all instrumentalists" in an age range or "all instrumentalists" who are students at a particular college/university.
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when i think of either of these terms, i think of seasoned pros. id classify an instrumentalists as someone that plays multiple instruments at a high level. muscians would be anyone that are known for there mastery of any individual instrument. These are definitions that i think of.. singers are different altogether. but a singer could also be an instrumentalist OR muscian or neither.
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I just think of an instrumentalist as a musician who plays an instrument, as opposed to a singer or composer or conductor. Again, the context where I've personally seen the term used most often is in university concerto competitions. In that context, the main reason it's used is to say that the competition is open to people playing any instrument, and not restricted to any specific instrument(s).
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I think the hardest 'musicians' for me to wrap my head around is 'Conductor' and 'Music Producer'.
I have trouble seeing a Conductor as a musician because they don't make a musicial sound, and I thought Music Producers only as technical - BUT, then I realized they must have practical/working knowledge of musical instruments to end up where they are (so I poked around a little more).
Music Producer vs Sound Engineer (indeed career guide)
Music producers rely on a combination of both technical skills and the musical skills necessary to direct and coach artists in musical production. For instance, musical proficiency in one or more instruments is often necessary for producers. They also apply musical theory when listening for the tone, pitch, resonance and rhythm of the music they record.
@AndrewH -
Thanks for bringing up 'context' - figured in might be different in Classical training/study.
@ABitRusty -
So, a beginner isn't considered a musician, only professionals? 🤔... maybe I won't be so quick to throw this word around anymore.
I do want to become proficient in bowed string instrument skills AND some other creative aspects of music... will be content to call myself a Fiddler.
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ELCBK said
So, a beginner isn't considered a musician, only professionals? 🤔... maybe I won't be so quick to throw this word around anymore.
I do want to become proficient in bowed string instrument skills AND some other creative aspects of music... will be content to call myself a Fiddler.
I dont care either way. since the topic was started i added what came to mind when i thought of the words.
is a person that just opened their new vioin box shipment and pulled the bow across an open string considerd a muscian?
what about a person that can play happy birthday?
exactly WHEN does a person become either of these words in your opinion?
I think the importanat and only real thing is to start playing and keep learning...progressing.. and let someone else worry about the definition. i dont see why it matters really.
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We use words to define ourselves, and others, everyday. Words can be limiting by their definition, or they might reveal a liberating concept that could possibly change our perspective/change our lives.
I read a lot of Bios & info about people, as well as watch interviews & documentaries - where these 2 terms are used either by the individual(s), or someone else writing about an individual (or group), maybe just giving an introduction.
As AndrewH pointed out, context can matter, but I felt most of us (here) aren't professionals & these words may have different meanings for each of us. Wondered if anyone thinks of themselves as an 'instrumentalist', 'musician' - or even feels there is a difference.
I used to see a 'musician' as anyone who made music playing an instrument, but it had to be something 'I' liked & wanted to listen to. So, if you played 'Happy Birthday' (& I liked it) - whoosh, you'd be a 'musician' in my eyes. ...well, before this thread. 🤣
Right now, in my mind, I've moved on from 'beginner' to 'Fiddler' - only because I've bonded with my Maezarine & finally feel I don't completely suck at everything.
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elcbk said..."Right now, in my mind, I've moved on from 'beginner' to 'Fiddler'"
congrats!!!
EDIT***
As AndrewH pointed out, context can matter, but I felt most of us (here) aren't professionals & these words may have different meanings for each of us. Wondered if anyone thinks of themselves as an 'instrumentalist', 'musician' - or even feels there is a difference.
right now i think of myself as a student of music with a concentration in ITM.. I suspext that will be true for the forseable future.
ANOTHER EDIT*** 😁
first off great topic for discussion. Heres a related video i think.
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I didn't expect anyone to compare themselves to other musicians, just wanted to know if anyone saw themeselves becoming an 'instrumentalist' (or multi-instrumentalist) vs. a 'musician'.
If I choose to label myself 'fiddler', I was thinking it feels a little self-limiting... not in ways some may think (since it could take more than my lifetime to become a great fiddler), but it doesn't make me aspire to do anything else 'with' my fiddling.
'Musician' is a pretty broad term (much more than 'instrumentalist') - includes quite a few different areas that could be interesting/beneficial to study. I started looking for even more... because I'd like to be headed in some direction, I just have no idea where!
What about 'Artist'? 'Artist' feels like a broader term than 'musician' (to me) - pretty much 'creativity unlimited'.
🤔... I think once a musician starts creating original videos for their own music - it's not a stretch to 'multi-media performance artist'. Not that I'm even considering this at the moment, but performance art doesn't have to be on a grand scale... and members here have already shared some pretty creative videos!
Anyway, I'd like to find how different 'Artists' have used/are using their music skills... above & beyond playing the fiddle.
I've watched some great performances by Laurie Anderson. She's done some really cool (and humorous) stuff!
Anyone know of an Artist using
their music in an unusual way?
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Jeez, I should probably say I didn't intend for this to waste folks' time - it was more about 'pysching myself/ourselves out'.
If change starts with thinking differently... if I can see my relationship to my instrument & music differently, figured it might spark creativity - maybe inspire a new goal, or possibly incentive to practice differently, or different material... but not sure, yet.
Hope I'm explaining this better. I'm not trying to change anyone else, nor presume anyone wants to, but hearing other beliefs/opinions & seeing what others do - helps 'me' change/think more creatively (it's a bonus if it helps anyone else 🤗).
We make midi audio files of our playing...
Has anyone seen how some folks have mapped out a rough drawing to midi (seems a fad about 7 years ago)? I see some interesting possibilities...
Steina Vasulka , an early music video Artist (originally from Iceland), did some crazy stuff with violin (more info in video description), used a Zeta 5-string violin after 1991. I found the mouth singing (at the begining of the video) a little 'in my face', which was intended, but the rest is interesting.
Lindsey Sterling has always incorporated at lease dance (and visual effects) with her violin playing. Lindsey Stirling Thread
Electric Violins have come a long way. I'm not sure how I feel about the Digitize 'Smart' Violin, with the complete fingerboard sensors - reminds me of my little Orba 2 (motion sensors, too). Idk, it's kinda weird, starting to feel like maybe too much digital stuff. Jeez, hope acoustic violins don't become extinct - I certainly don't want to let go, even though I enjoy electric, too.
Luke Spine has an interesting interactive album of 4 tracks. I've tried them! You can change them quite a bit - actually a pretty fun concept! Of course you could just run a song thru your own DAW, but the idea of presenting an album this way seemed novel.
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elcbk said....."
Jeez, I should probably say I didn't intend for this to waste folks' time - it was more about 'pysching myself/ourselves out'.
If change starts with thinking differently... if I can see my relationship to my instrument & music differently, figured it might spark creativity - maybe inspire a new goal, or possibly incentive to practice differently, or different material... but not sure, yet.
Hope I'm explaining this better. I'm not trying to change anyone else, nor presume anyone wants to, but hearing other beliefs/opinions & seeing what others do - helps 'me' change/think more creatively (it's a bonus if it helps anyone else 🤗). "
I get excited...or motivated when i hear a new tune..maybe different group playing it...or set. i really dont wanna change anything..I just wanna keep focusing on what im doing right and try to do THAT better.
EDIT***
So its whatever music im wanting to play really is my drive ..i havent really been concerned with what title i have. i think Id be afraid to hear it actually 
I was listening to The Fiddle Case and heard an arrangement ( set ) of two tunes that really got me motivated to learn.. and because of spent time not only learning the tunes but experimenting with a synth to mimmick an instrument they were using that im not gonna try .. improving timing and feel, practicing a string crossing loop de doo thing ..just several things that were involved with just those 2 tunes. still messing with them. SO... the act or process of learning music is scratching the creative itch.
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@ABitRusty -
I get that.
It's not that I want to change what I'm doing right now. ...and I'll be trying to become a better fiddler until the day I die.
Just want to be open to options that I might find interesting enough to alter my path, slightly.
Everything new with music performance seems to depend how techy/geeky we can get, which IS very cool (obviously not 'me' at the moment)... yet my Grandkids feel so much enjoyment from something as simple as shadow puppetry.
The act of playing the fiddle started as low tech... 🤔
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elcbk said..."Just want to be open to options that I might find interesting enough to alter my path, slightly."
alright now...with good will and for a smile...How can you not look back at your time here and all the various generes youve posted and NOT already know that? ..you dont need to proclaim it to yourself...it just is. 🙂
I think having a more SQUIRREL! thing going on is more of a leaning than being hard lined set in your music choices... but thats cool. Just seems like youre concerned youre not trying enough musically and if youve attempted a fraction of what youve shared... nahhh. think youre good 😃
Everything new with music performance seems to depend how techy/geeky we can get...
another reason i like irish. all acoustic..
BUT... if i wanna get techy geeky...thats no problem either.. its all play.. fun...a hobby... not a job im getting ready for. nobody gonna get hurt hopefully .. tinitus maybe.
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Do people not have an understanding of basic set theory?
I said in my first response, instrumentalists are a subset of musicians. That's what Webster is saying. A violinist is an instrumentalist, a singer isn't (although you might hear one refer to their voice as their instrument). Both are musicians. They are not civil engineers or sportspeople or doctors.
Are you having an identity crisis, Emily?
Andrew
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@Gordon Shumway -
Past that - sorry, the thread evolved.
@ABitRusty -
THANK YOU - you do make me think!
I did want to take a minute to consider possibilities without any electronic wizardry.
Fiddlers have danced, sung, even performed stunts while playing... nothing realistic for me to consider, though.
🤔... some form of story-telling might be fun.
Prior to starting Violin, I really enjoyed combining unrelated materials & techniques. Guess I'm a mixed media artist at heart, cause the urge still lingers - would like to do something similar, somehow, with music.
I could find different ways of mixing genres & change styles of music... omg. 😳
Just realized what's been buggin' me about the Halloweeny tunes I've been stringing together (playing in prep for recording) - they feel disjointed! I suppose it could be a good thing for that particular theme, but I am really NOT happy with stark transitions between different types - and I'm 🤬 I couldn't put my finger on this before now!
Since I love so many different types of tunes, I don't want to only play jigs, or reels, etc... together. Also, don't want to have to follow the 'typical' pattern of playing slow tunes 1st & fast ones last.
🤔... getting too late now, but I'll see what I can add to fix this - after I get some sleep.
Woo Hoo! 🤗 ...now I'm definitely off topic.
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