Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Check out our 2023 Group Christmas Project HERE

AAA
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Priorities in Learning. My thoughts
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (3 votes) 
Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 26, 2014 - 9:47 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was sitting around the house with little to do and started thinking. I was thinking about my approach to learning the violin and what I think are the priorities in learning.

So I though I'd share my thoughts with you all. At the outset I'd just like to point out that even though I'm expressing these thoughts, I in 'no way' believe that I have mastered these priorities.

I was thinking that without a good foundation, decorations in the house mean little.

A good way to explain the way I see the process would be to liken learning the violin to a 'Royal Court' with a King, a Queen, and their Courtiers.

The King of the court is 'Intonation'. Intonation is 'the tune'. If you don't have good intonation all else is of little use. Even if you can bow well and have mastered vibrato, no amount of bowing and vibrating is going to make up for poor intonation. Intonation 'Rules'.

The Queen of the court is 'Bowing'. It is the queen that brings life to the king's 'tunes'. Without the bow your Violin is little more than a badly designed Mandolin. It is the bow that 'lifts' the music from the violin into the air. It's skilful use is what makes it a violin.

And then come the Courtiers. These are the Slides, Slurs and the most famous courtier of them all, Vibrato. These, and other left hand techniques along with the many bowing techniques used make up the Court.

The courtiers are the ones that assist the King and Queen in fine tuning their Realm. They provide the nuances and sutubties that make the music 'whole'.

While, at their detriment, King and Queen could exist without the Courtiers, but the Courtiers are redundant without the Royals.

What do you reckon? 

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Panzón

Member
Members
July 26, 2014 - 10:14 pm
Member Since: May 12, 2014
Forum Posts: 28
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think rhythm and tempo need to figure in there somewhere. A correctly intoned tune played out of rhthym still sounds bad.

Mike

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 26, 2014 - 11:05 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Panzón said
I think rhythm and tempo need to figure in there somewhere. A correctly intoned tune played out of rhthym still sounds bad.

Mike

I totally agree Mike. I would say more rhythm than tempo. I still have problems there myself. I seem to have a problem with waltzes. 

There are so many things to playing a musical instrument. But I have so often seen new players such as myself struggling with things like vibrato when, in fact, their intonation and bowing is not up to the task. And many times I've seen the frustration lead to giving up. 

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
July 27, 2014 - 12:30 am
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 4180
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Ferret .. I adore this!!!

lets say Tempo / rhythm is the Kings mistress or the Queens lover! As long as we are making analogies right?  

This was great and I am so glad you wrote it.  Might be something illustrative for teaching.... ;). Good job.

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 27, 2014 - 1:04 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Toni @coolpinkone  

I think that I may have become a little 'fancyful' but I also think that the 'Royal' analogy is one that fits. But I 'did' say had plenty of time on my hands and forgot to mention the whiskey and cola. Lol

But now we have some intrigue in the Court. The King and Queen have taken lovers. This could get 'raunchy'. Can't wait to see how it turners out. ;)

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
July 27, 2014 - 8:02 am
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"Cleaning the violin" can perhaps be the "scullery maid" of the castle.. Since if the dishes and kitchen don't get cleaned then the quality of the food that everybody eats, all the way up to the royalty, will suffer sooner or later.  Most likely sooner.

blink

Everything matters.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
July 27, 2014 - 11:35 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 3744
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I like the analogy!  Cool @Ferret - the way I perceive myself as an actual performer then, would be to arrive at the Royal Court as "A Wandering Minstrel I"violin-studentwith tunes to make people happy, make them sad, make them dance and make them sing....  Music that will transport the audience to some other place.....

Performance over, there isclap but a lot ofroflas well - I believe I was mistaken for the Court Jester....  roflol ... oh well more practice then....

Ferret said
..... I also think that the 'Royal' analogy is one that fits. But I 'did' say had plenty of time on my hands and forgot to mention the whiskey and cola.....

Aha!  Sounds perfectly reasonable to me!   Now, where's my flagon of mead?

And just to introduce a bit of culture (no, I'm not talking about yogurt)  in the midst of this insanity - 

Bill - ( Wandering Minstrel and at times Knight Errant.... )

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
July 27, 2014 - 12:37 pm
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 4180
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@BillyG .. ha ha.. very nice. You have the spirit. :)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
July 27, 2014 - 1:09 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16430

You guys crack me up. :) LOL
I can't really find anything dis-likable about your analogy, except I agree that rhythm should be higher on the list of priorities.

I actually think that rhythm is highly underrated by violinists. I've heard many discussions between the percussion sections and string players where their ideas differ quite a bit. Whenever you are part of a group, the rhythm is second to intonation. Granted, you can't play rhythm without "bowing" which you listed as a primary category. Perhaps "bowing" means "rhythm in this case.

Lastly was an extremely important category IMAO, which you call "Courtiers".
I'd like to label it, articulation, expression, or embellishments, which would include all forms of enhancements such as vibrato, slides, staccato, staccatissimo, spiccato, detache, accents, tenuto, marcato, pizzicato, harmonics, trills, mordents, turns (rolls), grace notes, tremolo, dynamics, phrasing, etc….. This list is long....

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 27, 2014 - 11:53 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@BillyG 

Bill.

Would love to see you in your 'Minstral' pants. roflol

D6D50E1D-5D63-4300-908C-9D708545E128.JPG

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Kiara
Members

Regulars
July 28, 2014 - 2:02 am
Member Since: March 3, 2014
Forum Posts: 142
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I loved the Analogy @Ferret, beautifully worded, I quite enjoyed reading it. :)

However, I do agree with the others that Rhythm needs to find a place in there.

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 28, 2014 - 2:31 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Kiara said
I loved the Analogy @Ferret, beautifully worded, I quite enjoyed reading it. :)

However, I do agree with the others that Rhythm needs to find a place in there.

Hi Kiara @Kiara 

Thanks :)

Yes, you are right. Maybe, like Toni said, rhythm may be the King's mistress.

With rhythm being 'off' a tune can sound really bad. I know, Have been there. lol

But with the analogy I was thinking more of the physical aspects of learning the violin and that would make rhythm a function of bowing.

I was not trying to belittle the importance of rhythm. It's 'really' important.

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
July 28, 2014 - 3:29 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 3744
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Ferret said
@BillyG 

Bill.

Would love to see you in your 'Minstral' pants. roflol

D6D50E1D-5D63-4300-908C-9D708545E128.JPG

ROFL dude !   My preferred outfit is that of the court jester, though - 

jester.JPG

 argggghhhh !

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA

King
Members

Regulars
July 28, 2014 - 7:01 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2647
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The royal analogy is fine where you have a 'King & Queen', but what about us here in the states? Do we say, "All the President's Men", ? Or the Presidential staff ?

roflroflroflroflroflviolin-1267 us-4240 Encore,,,clapclapclap

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
July 28, 2014 - 7:54 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fiddlestix said
The royal analogy is fine where you have a 'King & Queen', but what about us here in the states? Do we say, "All the President's Men", ? Or the Presidential staff ?

roflroflroflroflroflviolin-1267 us-4240 Encore,,,clapclapclap

@Fiddlestix 

Ken

It works there as well. On the whole, the US just loves the Brit Royals. Possibly more than we Aussies. rofl

It just doesn't seem to work as well with President Obama and his attendants. It just doesn't have the 'romance' of a a real Royal Court ;)

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Pelagato

Member
Members
August 4, 2014 - 7:21 pm
Member Since: July 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 8
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I am trying to get a clean sound on the stuff I try before moving on, but right now I am stuck... The bone breaker fever is getting the best of me....

Avatar
Barry
Members

Regulars
August 4, 2014 - 8:03 pm
Member Since: June 30, 2011
Forum Posts: 2690
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

spend less time "thinking" and more time playing. violin-1260

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
August 4, 2014 - 9:19 pm
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hope you feel better soon, Pelegato.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
August 4, 2014 - 10:59 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Barry said
spend less time "thinking" and more time playing. violin-1260

If we stopped thinking we'd stop posting. Myself, I play every day.

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Barry
Members

Regulars
August 4, 2014 - 11:03 pm
Member Since: June 30, 2011
Forum Posts: 2690
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Ferret said

Barry said
spend less time "thinking" and more time playing. violin-1260

If we stopped thinking we'd stop posting. Myself, I play every day.

Im just being funny... not serious  dancing

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Mouse, nykteria
Guest(s) 68
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming Sofia Leo, TKDennis, FiddleDetroit, CookiesViolin, JPferrman, Designer 88, LyleA, Stephen, Dorque, Trisha, Elaisa, wonderputz, Gordon Shumway, dougga, Russionleo, JohnG
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 7770
ABitRusty: 3915
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2690
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
Gordon Shumway: 2425
DanielB: 2379
Mark: 2149
damfino: 2113
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31663
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 81
Topics: 10591
Posts: 134242
Newest Members:
Adityaail, SoCal335, Jan Howard, edwardcheng, Oscar Stern, bryanhanson, bittruster, fiddlecastro, jackdaniel, romanmills08
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16430, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3744, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 5318