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Reading music
Listening to music before reading
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (6 votes) 
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stringy
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November 11, 2023 - 5:42 pm
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Don't know if I have asked this one before, just wondering if it's considered a sort of cheating having to listen to a piece of written music before playing it.

I can play music straight off from the dots sometimes, and get it nearly correct if it's simple enough, I am not the world's best reader when it comes to getting the rhythm and note lengths correct. I have to hear it first to get an idea, and even even it's iffy, is this somehow cheating or does everyone have to listen to a piece first, or can everyone play it straight off and get the rhythm and length of notes perfect from the dots alone.

I find I play it better if I just get it by ear.

Cant beat a sunny day

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Mouse
November 11, 2023 - 5:58 pm
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Nope. Not cheating. Anything that helps, helps. 

I have to know what an unknown cello piece is supposed to at least sound like, I cannot get rhythm and beats, etc just by looking at the sheet music. I know what most of the sheet music symbols mean, I just cannot put them together without hearing it. 

It was always easier after I heard my instructor play it.

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AndrewH
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November 11, 2023 - 6:28 pm
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Not cheating.

I still find it useful, when I see unusual intervals or tricky rhythms, to play the music on piano first.

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ABitRusty
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November 11, 2023 - 7:38 pm
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the goal I feel is to play music.  Whether by ear or by dots or a combination of both. so no.

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stringy
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November 11, 2023 - 8:30 pm
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Thank you all for your replies, Don't feel as much of a fraud now;)

Cant beat a sunny day

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ABitRusty
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November 11, 2023 - 10:41 pm
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I think listening to different people play tunes helps.  If you had never heard this played

https://thesession.org/tunes/1.....print=true

would you hear this

 

or this

 

or this

 

or this

 

in your head before you played it?

 

and which one is correct?  neither..just different styles.  so listening first can give ideas or extras that may not be on the sheet.  So hardly being a fraud by listening as well as reading.  Its just another tool or way to get better when possible.  Granted there are people that make a living by going to a studio and get paid because they can sit down with a new piece of music and play it right there.. but i dont think you are asking about that kind of professionalism here.  

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ELCBK
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November 12, 2023 - 12:28 am
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@stringy -

I agree with the others. 

ANY way I can learn is fair game for me, but I fall in love with music because I've heard it.

For Classical music, I think it could take many years to fully understand all the exceptions to notation 'rules', become familiar with major Composers' styles of different eras & characteristics of Classical genres - especially to really excel at notation interpretation & sight reading to the point of a quick 'once over', then 'off to a performance'!!!

Even for folks who have a teacher - I still believe listening to how music is played helps & I'd compare notation to well-known performances, whenever possible.

 

Because my priorities have changed, I wish I'd placed more emphasis on 'verbalizing' (notes, note names and rhythms) that I was reading, while making sure I was focusing on using some notation every day (along with my ear training)! 

 

...anyone new to the forum needing tips?  3 Part "Strategies For Sight Reading" from Brad Harrison of 'The Sight Reading Factory'.

Part 1 - The Most Important Thing to Know About Sight Reading 

Part 2 - Sight Reading: The Fundamentals 

Part 3 - Sight Reading: Beyond The Basics

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Strabo
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November 12, 2023 - 9:21 am
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With a bit of work, I can figure out what the dots mean and where the notes sit on the fingerboard. But finding the notes is just the start -- it is not music yet. It’s a series of discrete notes that I might be able to wrangle into a tune or melody. That takes time and effort, and it feels like a struggle.

If I had learned the language of standard notation as a child, I would probably be able to sight read: Look at a score and intuitively translate that into real music. But that is not my situation and it’s way too much work to learn new music from the dots. Especially when there is an easier alternative. 

Dr. Molly Gebrian of University of Arizona kindly showed me how to learn by ear, and that has vastly simplified my musical life. I have posted links to her work here previously.

Learning by ear is far simpler and much more direct, at least for me. When I hear a tune I obviously know how it sounds. (Sometimes, if I hear it often enough, that tune becomes an “ear worm” and I can’t get it out of my head.)

Of course playing that new music is a whole 'nother step, but at least I understand where I’m headed if I know what it’s supposed to sound like. That sheet of notation -- or even tablature -- gives me very little hint of the final product.

Often I want to start playing right away, but I have learned that the process works better if I hold myself back and listen to the new music multiple times. It’s easier if I get the music into my head before trying to get it under my fingers. Sometimes I put a recorded version on “loop” and let it play over and over while I’m doing something else. 

YouTube has become a great resource for me. I can usually find several versions of music that I want to learn. I pick out a version that is clear and easy to follow, but not overly simplistic. I do not like those “lessons” that laboriously go through every phrase and every line. I much prefer to learn from a version is good music in itself and has some charm.

I play along with my chosen YouTube tune, slowing it down as necessary. First I find what I call the “landing notes”, the notes at the end of the main phrases. This is easy on violin. Then I work on building the connections between the landing notes. I can replay the recorded version as often as necessary. 

Before long I’m playing the new music -- probably not very well or very artistically -- but nonetheless it's real music. With some repetition I can play somewhat faster with better rhythm and flow. At this stage I often find myself improvising those connecting phrases. It’s not exactly like the original recorded model but that was never the goal anyway. 

As I gain fluency with a new tune I check out recorded versions to discover nuances -- double stops, grace notes, dynamic changes, etc -- and use them in the music that is now becoming my own. The thing grows and transmogrifies, and it gets to be a pleasure to play. Then I follow the advice of old Tennessee fiddler Ralph Blizzard: Never play the same tune the same way twice!

Dunno if this is helpful for anyone, but writing this has helped me clarify my own process. Thanks Stringy for the opportunity!

Strabo

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