Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
(15 votes) 
Regulars
Offline
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Regulars
Offline
There are some great tunes in the dancing master, I have started getting into these 16th and 17th century tunes, I like the dances that the tunes were written for. And the actual period as well. I only learned this one yesterday, posted this version and then took it down because I wasnt happy with it, I re posted because Emily said she wanted a listen.
Though there is no way to really find out how fast it should be played, as far as I know that is, I have the feeling I am playing this a touch too fast, and am going to do it again, and add in some accents which I think would have been authentic to the period. I find it extremely difficult to read a tune and play it without hearing it, but I think this is fairly close, and as I said to emily there isnt really any way to know how it was originally played.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
Sounded nice Stringy.
As far as how it was originally played, I usually don’t stress too much over that myself. There were probably tons of variations back in the day. 
Regulars
Offline
stringy
Sounds good, so many tunes so little time.
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons
Regulars
Offline
@stringy -
Sorry it took me so long - LOVED your 'Nonesuch'!
I enjoyed your variations and it feels like PLAYFORD to me! ...a fun English Country Dance! 🤗
THANK YOU for sharing this tune!
You sound (to me) like you are playing in 'major', which I think is exactly what Playford intended!
If you hadn't shared this... I don't think I would've ever noticed that the musicians & ensembles I've listened to play 'Nonesuch' (on Yt & albums) - don't represent the 'Playford' scores!
I don't want to take any focus off your video by getting into the weird stuff I've been finding related to Playford tunes - don't know if it's just THIS tune, or the majority.
*I'll let you and Andrew read, then I can move it over to the other thread, or delete.
Would you consider playing 'Nonesuch' in minor, or dorian? Or, do you want to strictly adhere to the Playford's scores?
I'm asking because there seems more variations accepted, but music does serve dancing & don't know how much matters to the dancers... as long as there's a beat & enough drive in the rhythm to keep them moving.
From the 'Nonesuch' dance videos I've seen, think your tempo is great!
@Gordon Shumway -
You bring up a very good point! Definitely tricky sourcing!
Stringy and I were talking over in the For Emily Thread about needing to hear musicians who have studied these tunes for English Country Dance (to get to know it), but in THIS case I wonder who cares anymore.
The first thing I noticed looking at the list of Playford's tunes, Dancing Master Volume 1 – Playford, there are 2 very different tunes 'Nonesuch' & 'None Such'. Then there's a 3rd - 'A la Mode de France' (maybe has more in common with the 'Nonesuch' version), but 3 tunes with confusing names.
Major vs Minor - the biggest difference between what I see notated in the 'Playford' Archive vs the 'Tradional Tune' Archive.
ALL 3 tunes at the Playford Archive ARE in MAJOR - not so at the Trad Tune Archive, OR The Session. The Session has ONLY ONE 'Nonesuch' with the other 2 as just alias names - All the settings are minor, or dorian... in 2/4! Playford: 'Nonesuch' (2/2), 'None Such' (6/4) & 'A la Mode de France' (2/2).
Listened to ensembles who appear to represent period music in albums & YT, but ALL 3 tunes were being playing in 'minor' (or a minor mode)... and I don't even think the names match what they play.
I have to suspect that minor versions just became more popular over time, but it sure would be nice if it was mentioned, like "Minor version of Playford's... whatever".
...jeez, it's hard for me to resist playing music on the dark side, but I would feel compelled to disclose that I'd played something different than what was first published.
Regulars
Offline
ELCBK said
ALL 3 tunes at the Playford Archive ARE in MAJOR - not so at the Trad Tune Archive, OR The Session
Yes, I had noticed that, which is why I published all of them. Also in at least one of those links, there's the original notation. I don't have time to study it and decide how ambiguous it is, if that's the reason for the variety. That can be a fun exercise for you!
I've added the sessioin to my post, so that all the links are in one place and quick to access.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Regulars
Offline
Thanks sasha and mark for taking the time for a look and for commenting as well.
Emily, yes it is the major version straight from Playfords. I have though of trying it in a minor key, I think it would go well with a darker feel to it, may give that a go. I a have been going through a lot of the tunes looking for some others, its like opening xmas presents, quite exciting. Like I said I have looked at a couple of the jigs but this type of tune grabs my attention, dont know what it is about them, brings images to mind of people dancing at court whilst the king looks on, that type of thing 
Noticed bobbing joe is in there as well, so it seems fairly obvious that at least some of these tunes made the jump from baroque dancing to morris dancing, which makes me think how close are some of the morris dances with the originals, I find it fascinating.
Leave your post were it is, it would be great if more people became interested in this type of music. I havent really looked at you tube for stuff like this but I am about to give it a go.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
Fun post Stringy and nice fiddling!
I think Kevin Lees grew up in the English country dance tradition and can be included. Also where you all were discussing whether major/minor versions and such. this quote is from the playford site..
"While there were certainly local variations in the details and figures in each dance, Playford sought to gather common versions of each dance into a published book. John Playford was likely not a dancer or a musician, judging from the numerous mistakes that can be found, but he clearly cared about music and dance and used his publishing business to help spread the joy of dance."
Think its good to Just play the version you like and get as good at it as you can! Youll probably make people that have devoted time to the tradition happy that youre interested to play some of it!
EDIT..
someone else I discovered that had some resources availble when Mouse was talking about this style..is Peter Cooper. He has a book out there devoted to it with audio of him playing some tunes from the book. He also references the Playford collection. Here is a link to his site and section where he list some info
Regulars
Offline
Re the original notation, and key sigs not being known in the 16th century, I was talking to Nicholas Mitchell today who is in this choir (last one on that page),
so he has some qualifications, and he thought that all tudor music was either in F major or C major. (I'd have guessed modal, therefore minor). There's probably a wiki page.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Regulars
Offline
Gordon Shumway said
Re the original notation and key sigs not being known in the 16th century, I was talking to Nicholas Mitchell today who is in this choir (last one on that page),so he has some qualifications, and he thought that all tudor music was either in F major or C major. (I'd have guessed modal, therefore minor). There's probably a wiki page.
Ive no idea myself.. Ive heard a few tunes I like, and played the one Mouse was talking about but other than that havent explored it much. I started reading some of the playford website and saw the quote I shared above mainly because it seems to say to me... meh.. stuff is close but could be wrong here or there..so with that if there are different versions floating around theres probably some truth to each.
Regulars
Offline
If Nicholas is right, then the stave at the bottom of this page
can best be taken as the alto clef, making the piece C major.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Regulars
Offline
Abitrusty, thats a very interesting link I took a look at that bloke, cant seem to get any music though, but I may be doing something wrong somewhere;) I tend to agree about a bit of lee way, I think there must have been regional variations, because travel was so difficult in those days, if tunes were passed down , thsywould almost certainly have changed slightly every time. I am now resisting the temptation to start learning to many at once, you know what I mean jumping from one to another and not getting any of them down.
Gordon took a look at the chap you linked, he certainly does have the qualifications, and a lot of the tunes in playford are written in f. Dont know if they did use other keys,( in English dance tunes anyway.)
I play this one in D major as its the first one I came across, but I may try it in the other keys as well, but in saying that, I think abitrusty has something when he says get as good as you can at the one you are doing
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy just last week was looking at The Frost is All over ( an Irish jig ). There seems to be a SONG that is sung by that title also and whats funny is the melody is a tune called Paddys Return which some people call the frost is all over.. In the SONG some of the lyrics say "The Frost is all over"... and they also sing a line "And Kitty lie over" WHICH is ALSO a tune unto itself that is basically the same melody as paddys return.
I havent asked the authorities about it.I dint wanna know which came first now. I suspect the song came later and borrowed the melody BUT... i dont know...main thing is..i can see how things can get scrambled and everyone be able to back up why the version being played at any given time matches the title. gives us something to talk about mainly 😉😀
Regulars
Offline
stringy said
I play this one in D major as its the first one I came across,
I don't think it matters which key you play it in - whatever fits the violin and your comfort zone.
The point is that it's (probably) in a major key, not minor - some of those sites have versions in minor keys.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Regulars
Offline
Abitrusty, havent heard the frost is all over, but I cant wait to hear it, if you are going to do it for the party that is, I wont try to find a version of it because I would like to be surprised.
I find it amusing how tunes can end up with half a dozen different names.
I have a theory that when played in a session, or a solo in some bar in mayo or somewhere, in the distant past, a tune may have been called something like the donkeys foot, and when asked what its called the drunk fiddle player wouldnt be able to remember, or just got the name wrong and called it the donkeys left foot, and eventually the name would have changed completely, to something like paddys wooden leg, and the tune stayed more or less the same lol.
Gordon, see what you mean. I think it may sound better in a Dorian mode, but in saying that , its probably more authentic in D
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy Neat tune—looks like really interesting history behind all of these period dance pieces.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
Regulars
Offline
Thanks for having a look sharon, I had taken this one down because I wasnt happy with it and was going to do it again but another Member (Emily) said she wouldnt mind a listen so I reposted it, I intend taking it down tomorrow and may do it again when I can do it more justice. I really do need some new strings as well, just worked it out and I have had these on for a year lol, I can never tell when the are getting worn out, until I get a new set on and I go wow, especially when I constantly have to retune. I wouldnt mind a deeper sounding fiddle as well. I am made up with this one but the power of it is amazing, I try to play it lightly but it could still blow the windows out.
Cant beat a sunny day
1 Guest(s)
Mouse
Fiddlerman
ELCBK
