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The fourth finger
The bane of my existence...
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
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nykteria
Oregon

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January 14, 2025 - 11:35 am
Member Since: September 25, 2023
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Short of learning how to dislocate my pinky on demand, I don't know what to do. 

The main problems I have and that my teacher has noticed is: 

1. My left pinky, if my hand is in a relaxed position, slightly tucks itself under the finger next to it. Where my other fingers curl straight, my pinky curls at an angle. 

2. My hands are small compared to my arm length (I have 26 in. arms, which all the charts and stuff say that my 15.5 inch viola should fit perfectly and it's true that I don't have any problems with anything else. ) and my the base of my pinky sets low on my hand compared to my other fingers.

3. I unconsciously curl my pinky out of the way when I'm playing. This adds to my general left hand tension. 

4. My left hand is less tense on the viola then the violin, but it's still got some tension. 

Given all that, I physically can't reach with my first finger and my fourth finger down and have them both where they should be. To hit my fourth finger I have to do almost like a mini shift. I'm pulling my left elbow to the right as far as it will go- my muscles are actually sore from doing it. 

I'm getting a Bon Musica (it helped on the violin) and a center chinrest (also helped), but until they arrive, any tips with any of this? Thanks in advance!

~Sara

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Unfretted
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January 14, 2025 - 1:38 pm
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“1. My left pinky, if my hand is in a relaxed position, slightly tucks itself under the finger next to it. Where my other fingers curl straight, my pinky curls at an angle.”

It’s not unusual for any pinky to angle a little when curled, even without holding an instrument. It’s just anatomy.  However, the best way to train your pinky to behave correctly is to USE IT.  I see this in jams all the time.  Folks who don’t play with the fourth finger either hold it straight in the air like English tea time, or curl it up like a snail.

Play scales in as many keys as possible incessantly for several weeks using your fourth finger with proper intonation. No open strings! Play trills between the third and fourth finger on every string. Play everything without using open strings.  Your fourth finger will rapidly get used to the idea that it is an active part of your hand and must be at the ready at all times.

It’s kind of strange, but the internet users have created this weird mystical idea of the intimidating fourth finger, and people obsess about it.  When I learned to play forever ago, we had four fingers and used them right from the start. No pampering. Lesson 1 was pizzicato with open strings.  Lesson 2 was bowing open strings.  Lesson 3 was bowing fingered notes and we used all four fingers.  From that day on, open strings were taboo unless there was a very solid, rational reason for an exception.

Hope that helps with Question #1. I am a violinist, not viola.  Can’t advise on anything else. I was born with a ridiculously long fourth finger and learned to reach with it as a child.  I sometimes need to think silently “hold back, hold back” so that I don’t play sharp with my fourth finger!

Hope that helps. Good luck, and enjoy yourself.  And congratulations on the Bon Musica!

———————————————
NO 🚫 🎭 DRAMA

———————————————

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Mouse
January 14, 2025 - 3:26 pm
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What Unfretted in his post above makes a lot of sense. 

What I would add is this. If you think the Bon Musica and center chin rest will help, wait until you receive them. 

1. You will then learn using the equipment and setup you will be using and not have to re-adjust.

2. You will not risk straining your fingers by forcing the issue on a setup that does not work for you. Setups are not only for playability, but the correct setup, will help eliminate injury, yes, even to a finger joint.

A lot of people with short fingers play stringed instruments. They adjust to meet their body build. 

My finger curls inward a little, too.

Not sure if this helps or not, but just my thoughts when reading the two posts above.

🐭

                  Learn Violin and Fiddle

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ELCBK
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January 14, 2025 - 4:20 pm
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Isn't your new Viola body thicker than your violin?  You may end up needing a different shoulder rest. 

There are so many things to work on (at the same time!) when learning violin/viola... I can only concentrate on 1, maybe 2 at a time.  Unfortunately, many trad fiddle tunes I was playing were in 1st position & didn't require 4th finger, so I didn't use it as much as my other fingers (which I really regret).  Being self-taught, I finally got around to working on my pinky curling & my left hand shape/stretching/movement 2 years ago.  I'm ashamed to say that's after a 3 year combined total of playing violin & viola! 😖

It took a LONG time to overcome my habit/instinct to curl my pinky up.  I had to overly exaggerate my focus on keeping ALL 4 fingers hovering over the fingerboard & close to the strings - for what seemed like forever.  There were times I seriously thought about using tape around my 1st pinky joint - to remind me!  😳 

 

I am certainly NO expert, but found playing on the finger pads, moving the thumb for better hand balance and releasing unnecessary fingers can help with Viola playing.  Any tension kills progress. 

You are fortunate to have a teacher to help you work thru your problems, but here are a couple links to videos that focus on these issues - might be helpful: 

Travis Maril Viola - How Karen Tuttle's "plop" transformed my left hand 

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nykteria
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January 15, 2025 - 2:26 am
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When I learned to play forever ago, we had four fingers and used them right from the start. No pampering. Lesson 1 was pizzicato with open strings.  Lesson 2 was bowing open strings.  Lesson 3 was bowing fingered notes and we used all four fingers.  From that day on, open strings were taboo unless there was a very solid, rational reason for an exception.

 

I wonder if it comes from people who had my experience. I started the violin in the 4th grade. We didn't learn about the 4th finger until long into the year, and we were told you only use it basically to hit the highest note on the E string (It wasn't until last year that I learned the violin had positions). No one made us use it, so I didn't. I didn't quit orchestra until 8th grade, and it's funny to me how I have no memories, really, of playing or practicing or anything but the bad habits I picked up came back right along with the violin when I started playing again. The viola is just different enough to where it's acting a little as a reset, and I'm really trying to break some of those habits. I know you're right; I just got to keep using it. It kills my intonation, totally screws up my rhythm, sounds generally awful...and it's going to stay that way unless I continue to do it. 

~Sara

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nykteria
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January 15, 2025 - 2:37 am
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Mouse said
What Unfretted in his post above makes a lot of sense. 

What I would add is this. If you think the Bon Musica and center chin rest will help, wait until you receive them. 

1. You will then learn using the equipment and setup you will be using and not have to re-adjust.

2. You will not risk straining your fingers by forcing the issue on a setup that does not work for you. Setups are not only for playability, but the correct setup, will help eliminate injury, yes, even to a finger joint.

  

I don't expect it to be a make-or-break difference, but then again it might be! The shoulder rest I'm using is bleh. It does the job, but I miss my Bon Musica, and after playing with a center chin rest, playing with an side one feels weird. 

I know you're right. People adjust. I was looking at the videos ELCBK posted and they already mentioned some posture hacks that are slightly different with the viola vs. the violin and that in and of itself may be enough. 

~Sara

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nykteria
Oregon

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January 15, 2025 - 2:46 am
Member Since: September 25, 2023
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ELCBK said
Isn't your new Viola body thicker than your violin?  You may end up needing a different shoulder rest. 

There are so many things to work on (at the same time!) when learning violin/viola... I can only concentrate on 1, maybe 2 at a time.  Unfortunately, many trad fiddle tunes I was playing were in 1st position & didn't require 4th finger, so I didn't use it as much as my other fingers (which I really regret).  Being self-taught, I finally got around to working on my pinky curling & my left hand shape/stretching/movement 2 years ago.  I'm ashamed to say that's after a 3 year combined total of playing violin & viola! 😖

It took a LONG time to overcome my habit/instinct to curl my pinky up.  I had to overly exaggerate my focus on keeping ALL 4 fingers hovering over the fingerboard & close to the strings - for what seemed like forever.  There were times I seriously thought about using tape around my 1st pinky joint - to remind me!  😳 

 

I am certainly NO expert, but found playing on the finger pads, moving the thumb for better hand balance and releasing unnecessary fingers can help with Viola playing.  Any tension kills progress. 

  

Thanks so much for the videos! That "plop" one in particular was really useful. I can't wait to try it. 

I was taught violin by an old-time fiddler who volunteered to teach our elementary school orchestra. Maybe that's why we weren't really taught fourth finger...maybe he was playing those types of tunes as well. 

The viola does have a thicker body. I tried a Kun-style shoulder rest with it and didn't like it. I like the "hook" of the Bon Musica, and it takes the strain off my neck. There's been a couple of times when I've had a headache when I'm done playing, and I think it's neck strain. I'm trying to be careful, trying to remember to warm up my hands and shoulders before playing, trying to really watch for tension, because I don't want this to hurt. 

Those videos you sent me lead to another one that had some hacks in it, like it mentioned your wrist is probably not going to be able to stay perfectly straight when you use your fourth finger. That's a huge relief to me, because I was really going for that. 

~Sara

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