cunparis said
We were in Los Angeles on vacation last summer so we stopped by the Gliga store in Pasadena.  I let my daughter pick out her violin.  She tried four of them and picked the most expensive one (she wasn't really paying attention to prices).  It's a 3/4 size but for its size I think it has a wonderful tone.  However, as others have said, it's not loud or bright by any means.  It's dark and mellow.  I think for a beginner that's a good thing, but I can see why advanced students wouldn't like that.  My Chinese violin is much louder than hers so when we play together I put a mute on mine so I can hear her.  That would be the only "complaint" about the gliga, and for us it's not an issue since she doesn't play well and doesn't need to "cut through".  We paid around $400 for it, I forget the exact model.

I'd like to learn how to make bridges and adjust sound posts so that I could experiment with tweaking it. 

Well, take my comments I guess with a bit of a grain of salt. I've been around fiddles all my life because of my Kentucky roots. However, alot of the fiddles folks up in Kentucky played when I was a kid ( looking back ) were probably in my opinion "very beat up" and very poor instruments, with all manner of strange set ups.

However, I have been around some good Bluegrass fiddlers and heard some really good fiddles in the past. Even so, I'm a rank beginner. I haven't played but 2 fiddles my whole life "personally" (LOL) so I guess that right pretty much disqualifies alot of my input. LOL!!

Even so, if we are talking about the needs of an aspiring or pro classical player, as opposed to an aspiring or pro fiddler, according to my research, those needs and requirements are quite distinct. I've read and heard from alot of good sources that pro country, folk and Bluegrass fiddlers can get by with ( and do play ) playing fiddles that are quite inferior and inadecuate compared to the needs of the same from an aspiring or pro classical player, who puts the instrument through alot more playing demand than a pro fiddler. One gentlemen on another forum who has a music shop told us on that forum that one of the top fiddlers in the US who's won many MANY championships around the country, plays an import fiddle that he paid less than $200 for, and he's won alot of competitions on that Fiddle. However, on the same note, he said many fiddlers also play QUITE expensive instruments as well..I wasn't ware of that at all.

I've heard the gamut about Gliga: Some said they were "blocky" "clunky Romanian corners" I read in one forum, and also a bit heavy, ( although mine is light as a feather, and resonates very well ) some said they were dark and mellow, some said they were more thin, some said they had nice projection and sounded great. Some said the set-up was iffy, yet others told me it wouldn't need any set-up at all. I found personally, however, that mine was VERY playable right out of the box for the most part.

I think alot of that has to do with just being newer instruments in the shop right off of the boat, hardly ever having been played and set up. I realize, to be honest, some folks, like me, we probably don't even know enough yet maybe to really tell the difference. Knowing it in "theory" and from research, and then knowing it from experience, is different. I just know what I've read and a "little" from experience LOL.

I'll say this: In my opinion, at least in the range that I paid for (U$S 350 ) for my Gliga Genial-1, I'd say you get what you pay for, and maybe even more. It's true these instruments are very beautiful. Mine is very nice and has a pretty nicer wood selection for a Fiddle in this price range. It has some pretty nicely flamed sides, back and even the neck has a hint of some flaming. Even so, I also realize, flaming is just aesthetic, it really has no bearing on the tone or sound quality of the Fiddle whatsoever. My Gliga also has a VERY thin matte oil finish, it's really nice. I think one could do alot worse than mine. I think it "looks" alot more expensive than it really is. But if it looks good and sounds "bad" that does a disservice doesn't it?

Mine is the Genial-1 which is the highest student level they make, before a Fiddle is considered an "intermediate" by their standards. Now, I can't speak to Gligas higher end models such as the Gems, Gama, or the custom built ones by Vasile. Maybe in those price ranges the quality doesn't justify price, I don't know because I've never seen or played one.

But, I think one shouldn't feel ashamed about buying one of these if they do. I'd say, at least at my level they are more than adecuate, have plenty of volume and a nice pleasing tone. Actually, it's opening up pretty nicely and I've only had it in my possesion for 1 month, The G and D strings were a little weak and are taking longer to warm up ( just like my Mandolin when it was new ) however I suspect it's going to open up and get EVEN better after a year or so, even though it already is VERY pleasing to play. I absolutely LOVE the neck and polished ebony fingerboard on it, it's very nice.

I think if one does the research on Violins, it's really a buyers market. China, Romania, Germany, Bulgaria. There's SOO many good Violins being built offering great quality at VERY reasonable prices. Lookm at how much Violin you get for the price with Fiddlerman. Maybe were entering into a "golden age" so to speak of quality manufactured Violins. They have to be giving alot of luthiers I'd think a run for their money!

Hey quick question, anybody have or play any  of the "Knilling Violins? They seem to get good reviews for beginners and seem to be a pretty decent value. Not sure if they're made in Romania or Germany?

Uzi said

EricBluegrassFiddle said
Hey quick question, anybody have or play any  of the "Knilling Violins? They seem to get good reviews for beginners and seem to be a pretty decent value. Not sure if they're made in Romania or Germany?

@EricBluegrassFiddle, it appears that most of them are manufactured in Germany, with some from China.  Here's a video of their setup procedures.

 

Interesting video, thanks for posting!

DanielB said
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for all the great thoughts and info and debate in this thread/topic so far.  We're on to 5 pages now and it feels like it may be going on for a while more yet.  I think that is great!

I feel that the more info and opinions and ideas that we have here, the better.  The people most likely to check this sort of thread or find it by a search engine are going to be beginners or parents of beginners.  People that are looking for the information to be able to make the best choice they can in their price range.  The warnings and success stories of different price ranges, the discussion of quality issues and what to look for, the thoughts on what make for a good instrument, the bits on where instruments are made and etc.. It is all stuff that can help people decide and know what to expect.

So that's all this particular reply is.  Kudos, to one and all!

Agreed! being informed is what it's all about. It's hard I was simply amazed at all the choices out there when it comes to choosing beginner Violins, and we haven't even discussed intermediate or even pro level Violins yet!

Just to spice and divvy up things a little more ...

Anyone ever buy any Violins from Ebay? There's ALOT of Violins for sale there, especially targeting beginners. And, if so, how was the experience? was it good or bad?

I'm curious too cause I'm amazed out the stuff for sale on there LOL

bfurman said
Yes, Eric, I bought my last two instruments on eBay.  Both were used, which is what I was looking for.  Both had high BIN prices with low reserves from music dealers.  They were most likely trade-ins.  I knew the Hofner factory's reputation, and the cosmetic condition was a secondary concern for me. I was fortunate both times that the instruments turned out well.  Sometimes the stores don't really know or care what they have.  It's just a quick flip for them, so if it fetches top dollar, that's fine.  If not, then they've made room for more inventory.  It's just business for those sellers.

Now that I know about Fiddlershop, I dont have to worry about being gouged for a new instrument locally or buying from an unknown seller. One thing I wonder, though, is why the factories are able to turn out so many instruments at such a high rate?  I know people like new stuff, but what happened to all of  the older ones? Are they mostly lost or put in storage? Abused and broken?  Weathered and not worth repairing?

It's great that the Carpathian range is providing a good modern alternative to Alpine and Alaskan spruce.  We need reliable sources of good wood, and old growth timber is increasingly hard to come by.  I can only hope that the music industry is at the forefront of demanding sustainable forestry worldwide.

Cool read, thanks for sharing about Ebay!

Running the risk of rabbit trailing and digressing: I'd like to see more Violins being made with alternative woods? I often wonder why they don't source and use "Western Red Cedar" or "Port-Orford-Cedar" for Violin tops instead of Sitka or Englemann Spruce which is commonly used? 

Appalachian fiddle luthiers used to use Walnut and even Apple wood for Fiddle sides and backs and also hard Persimmon heart wood for fingerboards. It would be nice to see fiddles made with more of those alternatively sourced tonewoods. Actually, Persimmon is as hard if not harder than Ebony, it just has that tan, yellowish hue to it, which alot of folks won't like. Gliga makes a few fiddles with Boxwood fingerboards.

bfurman said
Regarding alternative woods, there are lots of options for the back and sides, and maple is still plentiful.  However, the most desirable top woods grow very slowly at high altitudes and in cold temperatures.

I love port orford cedar.  It is a very special (and rare) wood.  Its popularity for arrow making and Japanese architecture has dropped supplies to the point that it is threatened.  But it does make beautiful stringed instruments.

Western red is soft.  Good for mellow instruments where compression isn't a problem.  Red spruce is fantastic, and there's a pretty good Canadian supply.  Douglas fir is probably the most plentiful instrument wood across all of North America.  It has great acoustic properties but splits more easily than spruce.  There are also non-traditional species like Lutz, hemlock, and hem-fir.

I like pau ferro for guitar fingerboards and tailpieces.  Nothing is black like proper ebony though.

Well with prewar Gibson Mandolins, alot of those Mandolins use "Adirondack Red Spruce" and it was often touted as the top tonewood for Mandolins ( which generally use the same tonewood selection as Violins )

I've also read that European makers tend to prefer "Italian Spruce" as it was the kind of Spruce the builders in Cremona used to source from the local ports there on the Adriatic. I guess they call it "Italian" because its grows all over the Tirolian Alps of North central and North eastern Italy. However , I think it's actually the same Spruce that grows all over the Alps and throughout eastern Europe and down into the Balkans.

Fiddle builders in the Appalachians have been known to use Apple, Persimmon and Walnut as I mentioned. Even sourcing Chestnut for backs and sides when available ( usually taken from old barns ) they say those are some good fiddles.

Mexican and Texas luthiers use Grenadillo, Mesquite, Texas Ebony and other woods. I'd like to see more tonewoods being usede, although the tops will most likely need to remain either Sitka, Englemann, Adirondack Red or Italian Spruce I'd think. It's hard to find a better top wood than that.

I absolutyely LOVE the look and smell of wood....I've researched it ALOT...

Anybody ever see any Koa back and sides Fiddles?

Fiddlerman - That's a good question. There's actually a guy in Tampa Florida who buys old German trade fiddles, revoices them and sells then. Some of them are near "pristine" having hardly ever been played, sitting in storage for 100 years, although sometimes he has to cleat the tops on some of the more heavily used ones because of cracks or pull up the necks ( because some of them have really flat neck angles ) and plane the fingerboards, but he says they are usually monster fiddles after he revoices them and reworks them. He buys these puppies by the car load and he says there's ALOT of these fiddles around not being played that he can get dirt cheap, revoice them and turn them out. Some of them he has to use for spare parts, ( many come with the old fashioned grafted scrolls ) as they are too far gone, but he says most are easily workable and make really pro fiddles after he reworks them.

He usually just regraduates the tops, cleats and repairs any cracks, changes or reshapes the bass bars, thins out the kerf lining or corner blocks on the inside, planes the fingerboards and/or pulls up the necks if they are too flat...etc..

He's sold a few to some pretty prominent Nashville session fiddlers and even a few to symphonic classical players as well.

Most of them are German built coming from Saxony, Mittenwald and Beuchenwald in Germany where he says they had some famous shcools of Violin building. He also get's a few French built from the Mirecourt region of France and some Czech fiddles as well. He said most folks would buy these fiddles out of catalogs, like Sears n' Roebuck, especially around the turn of the century. They'd mass produce them overseas and ship em over to the states and people would buy them out of these catalogs...LOL..imagine that.

He says they were generally very solidly built fiddles but poorly voiced, as the tops were too thick. But he says when he revoices them they come alive. He comically mentioned that some of them sound like they are Fiddles on "steroids" after he revoices them. It's cool, as he gives these old timers a new lease on life. There's a few prominent, well known bluegrass and country fiddlers playing instruments he's revoiced.