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Regulars

I’m on the hunt for another fiddle, to be kept at my summer house. I have a strong preference for old instruments so I won’t be considering any new violins. I plan to shop in person where I can evaluate several violins in one place.
(I cannot bring my teacher along, as he is too crazy for this.)
I’m looking for tips on how to evaluate instruments. I have a good understanding of the physical issues, so I’m mostly interested in ways to best judge tone and tone production. I have read everything I can find, but of course this is a subjective process.
So I’ll be interested in any tips for judging tone, responsiveness, resonance, clarity, power, etc.
Many thanks for any bright ideas.
Strabo

Regulars

take your current instrument and bow for comparison. ask if there is a room you can use to try out instruments in.
as far as what to play.. as much of the types of things youre used to. low volume to high.. open strings and same notes fingered. then play yours...Id do that a bunch. the 2 places that are local never seemed to mind or at least allowed me to do that.
have a store employee play it for you.

Regulars

what @mouse says about acoustics is the same thing ive found.. not so much a "studio" its more like a closet where Ive shopped lol. BUT...taking your current instrument is best way to negate that effect.
i just always had adversion to playing in the actual shopping area where other people are.
If youre in the States...dont forget in home trials if fiddlershop does that still. in home testing for a week the best way to go if its available. Its worth a few extra dollars. they have some older instruments i believe.

Regulars

An interesting aspect of this is the difference of sound “under the ear” versus farther away. This doesn’t apply much to cello, but that fiddle is blasting out sound just a few inches from my left ear.
I know of this only by reading, not by personal experience so I don’t know how much of a factor it is. I’d take my teacher along to play various fiddles from across the room if he wasn’t such a loon, haha.
I do like the suggestion of taking my current fiddle along for comparison. And I can always have the salesperson play comparative scales etc for me.
In thinking about this, I found the following list of characteristics to check out. (At https://www.zaretandsonsviolin.....tone-25317 ). I think I could make reasonable judgments about most of these items (bold) but a few are beyond me.
- Power
- Clarity
- Balance
- Evenness
- Warmth
- Richness
- Depth
- Smoothness
- Brilliance
- Responsiveness
- Edginess
- Resonance
Of course all of these are quite subjective. But I guess that playing the fiddle is a subjective experience as well. The old Tennessee fiddler Ralph Blizard said that he never played a tune the same way twice!
Strabo
(And I’d love to be able to play a bunch of old fiddles at Pierre’s place. I think they do a great job, but unfortunately they deal mostly in newish instruments.)

Regulars

@Strabo thats a list. Im with you on some of the items.. and items like warmth and richness seem related.
idk.. I had pretty good luck using the A/B method one to another. Whatever quality each had even though maybe I couldnt define...i just knew by what i felt and heard and what it meant to me. Someone else may not be as concerned with particular things i didnt like.
evenness maybe falls into the category of how it sounds string to string and from lower positions up towards the bridge. but then balance maybe could be the same.
I think the ones you have in Bold are a good place to start since you have an idea of what those mean. I think with that information, taking your violin AND BOW and having a salesperson play them for you will give you enough information. i dont think youll miss any detail.

Regulars

Great suggestions from everyone!
I'm afraid I treat buying something new vs something old/antique very differently. I would frequent the places an antique might show up, but I wouldn't expect to find anything. I only hope to run across what to me is a special treasure - can't rush fate, it can take years.
BUT, you can put the word out to places that you are in the market - ask them to call you when older instruments show up!
First, you want to make sure you buy something better than what you have, so I think as long as you take your outfit along, especially your bow - you won't have any trouble.
If you're not CRAZY IN LOVE with an instrument's sound, immediately upon picking it up & playing it - don't waste anymore time on it.
Just go with an open mind & take notes on what you discover YOU like & dislike about instruments you try. Play music YOU like - what YOU like to hear while YOU play is most important.
Take your phone & small tripod to record yourself playing the same tune on each - you might be surprised by the playback comparison.
If I was doing this: tone under my ear, projection, and how it feels to play would be my priorities.
- Look for any physical damage/condition - pegs work smoothly, soundpost in the right spot?
- What strings are installed? They can alter tone, response & feel - you & the previous owner may have completely different preferences.
- would I prefer a different chinrest?
- Does a scale up one string sound & feel as good to play as on the other strings?
- How easy does it feel to do string crossings?
- is it bursting full with sound, better than my current instrument?
Btw, GREAT time to try other bows (while trying violins) to start learning there's a HUGE difference among them!
Happy hunting!

Regulars

Mouse, you are so fortunate with your grandfather’s fiddle -- what a great story!
I prioritize the sound under my ear over what someone else hears. Fiddle for me is a source of personal challenge and enjoyment, not a means to make my living. Some people need to be heard over a full orchestra, but that ain’t me. I’m free to do what makes me feel good. And if my fiddle gets overwhelmed sometimes by loud banjos or guitars, I guess I can live with that.
I like warm tone over sharp. I’m a fan of the fiddle’s lower register as it complements the brighter treble sound. And I like how those lower frequencies make the entire instrument resonate. It is important, though, that the lower tones come through with definition. Maybe it’s a contradiction, but I think warm tone can be clear, not muddy.
Strings definitely influence the sound. I certainly won’t have the ability to get every fiddle I test loaded with the same type of strings but I guess I’ll just have to live with that lack of comparability, and make the best judgment that I can. Different instruments often want different strings, so that’s always a trial-and-error issue (after the fact).
I’m still puzzled about how to judge the evenness of tone and volume across the strings. My current best guess is to have someone play a G scale up and down, up and down, and listen for obvious unevenness. Not very scientific, I know.
I selected my last fiddle quickly, based largely on tone. That fiddle spoke to me, and continues to speak to me to this day. I’ll be happy if I can do as well this time around!

Regulars

If you're not CRAZY IN LOVE with an instrument's sound, immediately upon picking it up & playing it - don't waste anymore time on it.
Excellent comment, Emily. As noted above, that’s exactly how I picked out my current fiddle.
I don’t have the patience to stretch this out over a long time. I don’t enjoy slow-motion shopping at the grocery store, and I’m definitely not willing to go through an endless process of ordering three fiddles, trying them out, returning them for others, rinse & repeat, rinse & repeat.
I’m gonna try to do this in one day. I’m planning to see multiple fiddles that supposedly have the characteristics that I’m looking for. I expect to come home with a new/old fiddle at the end of the day. Here’s hoping!

Regulars

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Here’s my current outline for evaluating old fiddles for potential purchase:
A. PHYSICAL CONDITION
-
- Weight
- Soundness: cracks; joints, signs of repair
- Detail work: scroll, purfling, corners, bridge, f-holes
- Finish, varnish, grain & flame
- Top: ✓grain, thump
- Label
- Tuners?
- Strings?
B. UNDER THE EAR: G Scales A/B
1. Playability
-
- Action
- Near / far from bridge
- Feel: Resonance in the body
2. Responsiveness
-
- Quick response; String crossing
- Pianissimo / Fortissimo
- Chop
- Sizzle? Crunch?
3. Resonance: does it ring
-
- Pizzicato / Pick
C. PLAY A TUNE: HOW MUCH FUN IS IT?
D. PLAYED AT A DISTANCE: G Scales A/B
1. Tone:
-
- Richness
- Dark vs Bright; Warm vs Sharp
- Clarity
2. Loudness
3. Balance across strings
Maybe this will be helpful for someone else!
Strabo

Regulars

@Strabo -
If I was parting with a good chunk of $, and looking at violins sold 'as is' (not gone over by a luthier) there's a few more things I'd consider.
EVERYTHING in your "Responsiveness" category ONLY pertains to the strings, ROSIN used & how you play - not the actual fiddle itself, strings & rosin can easily be changed.
Pegs are important - if they stick or slip.
The Bridge is important if you'll end up paying extra for a luthier. Make sure it's in the right place before you play - and that the soundpost is in a good position in relation to it (you might need it adjusted BEFORE trying to evaluate the violin). An old bridge might not be straight or well shaped. The top curve will determine how easy string crossings & double stops are to play & tone might be affected if notches are too deep, or if not enough wood cut away. You can always have a bridge dressed or a new one made if necessary - it just adds to the cost of the instrument.
This Video starts at the relevant point of bridge & soundpost relationship.
One important thing I don't want to hear prominently while playing in the lower positions - a 'wolf' tone. I, personally, don't want to have to deal with them.
We've also talked elsewhere on the forum about labels.
They are intriguing - sometimes the one you see isn't the original, sometimes it was lost or replaced by someone who did repairs & some are just deceiving.
...not sure how much anything matters if the fiddle doesn't catch your eye - or if it doesn't sing to you right away.

Regulars

Here’s the result: I hope this is useful for someone who needs to evaluate violins for a prospective purchase.
I was lookin for an old violin and I had a good idea of what I was looking for. I didn’t want to stretch out the process by ordering multiple instruments for trial, returning them and trying to remember which sounded best, etc etc. I wanted to do it all in one day.
I was able to play eight different fiddles in one day, four at each of two locations. In both cases I had requested that the candidate violins be selected to meet my preferences (noted above).
When all was said and done, I brought home a wonderful 100 year-old violin, a magnificent instrument. It has great volume, outstanding tone, and plays responsively and easily.
I found it difficult to evaluate instruments with other people standing around, waiting for me to make decisions. Listening to others play didn’t do much for me. What did work for me was to shoo everyone away and take some time to play each of several instruments, comparing them with each other and with my current fiddle. I came down to two instruments, both very similar, and just let them speak to me. Within a few minutes one of them emerged. In the end, it was easy.
The preparation was very helpful. I read everything I could find about judging violins, watched some videos, and members of this forum helped me think about how to proceed. While the evaluation/selection process was a little bumpy at first, I felt confident that it would work out. It did, and the result has exceeded my hopes and expectations.
Many thanks to all!
Strabo
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