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I acquired this old fiddle from a reputable seller/instrument maker who deals mainly with pre-civil war fiddles for reenactors. I’ve bought other instruments from him that he’s made, this is my first fiddle from him. it had belonged to a friend of his that passed away in his 80s and had been his favorite fiddle.
He said it has most likely been revarnished at some point but unknown when. It needs the bridge shaped or just a new one (contemplating trying one of the self adjusting bridges from Fiddlershop) and has a small seam opening I need to have him close up, probably opened up after I bought it, it was in an old civil war era coffin case and I was carrying it on a rolling cart for a few hours, lol… but sounds really nice, it has a lot of potential.
I know to take labels with a grain of salt, but am seeing if anyone might have heard of this maker or might have more insight.(rattle snake rattle was an unexpected bonus)
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damfino
Your fiddle definitely has an old timey vibe to it, Good luck on finding some information on it.
Mark
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Albert Sammons
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yeah Im like Mark...it has character.. especially with the rattlesnake tail in it!
New violin day requires poster to play us something.. its a rule. true story.
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Fiddles and mandolins often had rattlesnake rattles in them to give them mojo, or hoodoo, or something. You can read about it on bluegrass mandolin forums, I believe.
Fiddlershop sells a positioning tool for them.
Andrew
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I am thinking this is truly from when you are saying. Why? The rattlesnake tail. I don't know much about identifying old violins, this is definitely in a "folk fiddle" category, from what little I have read up on the rattlesnake tail. Congrats to you. I say, "fiddle" not to cut it down, the fiddle was the entertainment, not the violin in that era for people, from what I have read. This is great,
The rattlesnake tail. Yes, in the days of yore, people used the fiddle for their entertainment, they would hang their fiddles in the barn, on their porches, set them on their tables, etc. This way they would just grab them and play them. Rattlesnake tails were inserted to keep bees, spiders, wasps etc out of the fiddle. Some did it to keep out bad luck, or however they referred to it, spirits, oh, evil spirits.
There are many reason they do it, some superstitious, some do it for keeping but the bees, wasps, mice, spiders, etc, many reasons. It is, supposedly, from the early Appalachia that this was happening.
I recall reading somewhere, and I think this one was from a web article, that it was used when teaching to keep the student from moving the fiddle too much? It made them have to be careful not have it make the rattle sound. But, and I think it was in the same article, it was also mentioned that it provided like a background sound or something. Maybe like one of those round cylinder things the percussionists in a band use to make that grinding sound, I can't see how it could be heard over the fiddle, so I don't buy that theory.
From the photo it looks like an old dried up rattle that has been in there for ages, I would leave it inside, if it was me, for authenticity. And because the original owner most likely inserted it. I think your hunch about the Civil War is accurate. I think this is pre-Civil War, Again, this is based on some information I have read in a few places, not all internet. I had heard about rattlesnake tails in fiddles and it got me curious. I am no expert.
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The bridge is nice and rounded, but the action looks very high. that E string looks to be way too high above the fingerboard. It may be that the bridge is too symmetrical - it should be higher for the bass than for the treble strings. Maybe it's even a bridge blank that was never cut down? Maybe that is common and doesn't matter for fiddling in first position? In addition, isn't the bridge back to front? The printing should always be at the front, not the back.
Those were my thoughts in the order that I had them.
In summary, although photos mislead, my guess is that it's a bridge blank that's back to front. You don't need a new one, you just need to get a luthier to reverse it, carve it down and adjust the soundpost. As part of this, the luthier will also reshape those feet to fit - they look a lot heavier than the feet on my bridge, which may be another indication that it's a blank.
Andrew
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About to run into work, but here’s a quick clip, first fiddle is this one, the second is my modern fiddle.
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Wow, that sounds nice! They both sound nice,
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Sounds like that rattle works as a reverb device!
Andrew
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they both sound great! I think I would keep both in case you were deciding on parting with one. You gotta have at least 2 fiddles. 🙂
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I think a new bridge will do wonders for its sound, but I really like it. It has lots of potential.
Oh yeah, my modern fiddle isn’t going anywhere. I like it too much. I just keep adding to my collection, lol. I think I have 6 working fiddle right now, and 2 wall hangers, lol.
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One of the ways the seller used to age it is the neck graft. He said before 1840 violin necks were shorter, and in the 1840s they started making them longer. Once that fought on if people really liked their violin, they had a new neck put on. They would cut off the old scroll and graft it to the new neck. That’s exactly what this one has. He personally dated it late 1700s to very early 1800s based off his personal experience. So the label does fit that time frame. So does the rattle snake rattle. He said it was more used to keep mice out, and he’s found them in lots of old fiddle, guitars, bass and mandolins.
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All that that you just stated is what I read and also heard on a PBS show about early fiddlers. Great find, Damfino. I am not looking for mor instruments, but if I see an old one with character, and/or a story, I know I will scoop it up. I will out it right next to the one my grandfather made. They are so interesting.
Yours sounds fantastic, as does your playing.
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Don't know about its age or anything, but I prefer the sound of your old in years fiddle to the new one. If you really want to know its history you know where to post it, but they can be a bunch of snobs., personally I wouldn't bother if you like it. Just been on a fiddle buying expedition myself and all I saw was an old Gliga. Lol
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Since google failed me, I’ve been resorting to genealogy to try and find record of the maker, but coming up empty, not totally surprising, but I’ll keep trying.
The guy I bought it from is going to do the repairs it needs for free and adjust the bridge for me. I have the name of the previous owner so I’m going to make note of that just for the sake of knowing who used to play it.
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When I gave my Goronok cello to my former cello instructor, before we drove to the college he is attending to give it to him, I wrote up what I knew from when I purchased it and included it with the cello. I stated where I purchased it, what I paid, what I was able to find out about Michael Goronok (not much), what I found out about the company that purchased Michael Goronok's company, the strings that I have tried and what I thought, anything I knew about it and Michael Goronok. I also added the date I gave it to him and that he was my former instructor and now attending (name of college here).
I also included the date I had it have a checkup, which was a month before I decided my former instructor deserved it.
Anything you add to the information and keep with it, will go a long way. Your kids will love it in the later years, too.
It is too bad that is it so hard to find information in these old fiddles, but they were made to play.
So glad you have shared this.
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Oh, you should add where you take it to play with dates, songs played whenever you can and keep that with it, too.
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@damfino -
WOW!
If your new (old) fiddle sounds THAT good, with an open seam - can't wait to hear it after it's been repaired!
🤔... doesn't the rattle buzz at all while you are playing?
What is the drawing on the back?
Is the name inside, "Nicolios Sevarie" (1742)? I don't have time to look, but there is an old French book, that might be worth a few minutes of your time - "Les luthiers italiens aux 17è et 18e siècles; nouv. éd. du Parfait luthier de l'abbé Sibire, suivie de notes sur les mâitres des diverses écoles". It has a list of Italian luthiers (with a little info on each) from 1450 to 1760, you can check for the name - list starts on page 200 & you can view it directly, starts here: https://archive.org/details/le.....ew=theater
I'm surprised the seller doesn't know more if he was the owner's friend - you know how fiddlers LOVE to tell stories! Maybe there are others (still alive) who maybe jammed with the owner, possibly heard more about the fiddle - try spreading his name around.
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@Mouse Good idea!
@ELCBK The rattle doesn’t seem to make noise when playing, but you do hear it move around in there when you tip the fiddle. I’m going to see if I can carefully get it out before dropping it off for repairs, I want to be sure it doesn’t get lost so I can put it back in.
The guy I got it from has had it for about 20 years since his friend passed away. He knows it was his favorite fiddle but didn’t seem to know about the background, where he got it, etc.
I’m not sure if there is a drawing on the back, unless you spotted something I didn’t.
The names looks like Nicolius Sevarie, and I think the year is 1792. I’ll have to check that link and see if there are any leads. Who knows how many years they were making violins or if it was a family trade.
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