Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Private messaging is working again.

AAA
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Sound Post Story
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 12:45 pm

@fiddlestix: Yes, size and ceilin height do have an effect of your instrument. Basically is how much sound bounces back from the wall. When I was in college learning Chinese zither, there was a popular practice room -- because it sounds the best, no matter how bad you play:P

Even in my bed room now it sounds the best when I play in front of the mirror where the room is smaller than when i play by my bed where the room is wider.

 

So, when comparing two or more violins, one should play in the same room, same spot, and same bow, and even same person, same piece, (not to mention same force and same techniques) to avoid the environmental factors/variables.

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 1:01 pm

Well OK.  Now that I have the benefit of an educated audience I must try an experiment.  I will compare 2 violins.  One is my 20 mm sound post relocation and the second is a standard sound post position.

I have to explain that both violins sounded very much the same even though different instruments.  I believe that both acquired their "bad" sound after being in NC for 2 years after 5 years or so in CT.  But I don't want to give any more background right now.

So, here is a recording.  There are 2 violins and I'm just playing the 4 open strings on each violin. 

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
February 18, 2012 - 1:18 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16537
23sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hard for me to tell a difference. Thanks for the post thumbs-up

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 2:43 pm

Well, if I can't prove my prejudices with regular recording equipment then I have to upgrade.  So here is a sound post comparison using a good condenser mic with tube preamp. 

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Gail
29 Palms, CA

Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
February 18, 2012 - 3:18 pm
Member Since: December 9, 2011
Forum Posts: 221
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Big difference.  The first sounds a bit brighter to me.  The second sounds muted.

I've learned so much from my mistakes that I've decided to make some more.

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
February 18, 2012 - 3:34 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I have absolutely no technical idea why but I preferredrd the 2nd.
Could you play Barber's Adagio on both just to make sure?

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 3:37 pm
27sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Let me wait for another reply or two and I will then tell which is which.

Avatar
gordon_sc
South Carolina

Member
Members
February 18, 2012 - 5:26 pm
Member Since: November 22, 2011
Forum Posts: 33
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Oliver based on my "no tone ears" I think the 2nd one sounds better and that was on both recordings.

I am using a older computer with a Soundblaster Live sound card and headphones.

Thanks.done

It ain't gonna learn to play itself.

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 6:57 pm

Well, I might as well reveal the facts.

I think the second violin sounds much better.  It is the one with the 20 mm sound post location.

However, I'm impressed with Gail's observation because the "brighter" is true for #1 but it is not the sound I prefer in a violin and is, in fact, the reason I began moving sound posts in the first place.

The difference is really obvious in comparing  "A" and "E" strings.  The second violin is much more able to "speak" on those strings now.

I believe that the dramatic move of the sound post away from the treble foot has reduced the high(er) violin frequencies and given the violin a nice mellow sound. 
But the move did NOT reduce the volume (which seems strange to me?)

coffee2

Avatar
Sofia Leo
Springfield, Oregon

Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
February 18, 2012 - 7:26 pm
Member Since: April 6, 2011
Forum Posts: 466
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

You've obviously hit upon the ideal location for the sound post, Oliver. Congrats! If it sounds good to you, then it's Right, no matter what the Experts deem the "proper" sound post location.

Mary in Springfield, Oregon http://www.thefiddleandbanjopr.....dpress.com

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 8:02 pm
31sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Well, I know what happened here and I feel that my violin was "saved".  The fact is that I bought an electric in the meantime with the intention of not even using any acoustics due to sound quality problems. Maybe I could sell them. I would rather have a root canal than deal with another luthier so that door was also closed.

I have to wonder how many others might be just tolerating their violin sound when some simple fix might be available.  In all fairness, I can appreciate that the hunt for a good sound post location can be time consuming and nerve racking and a luthier might not find that very profitable.

I've heard plenty of good fiddles too so I guess they are out there and it's best to be very careful in buying any violin.

coffee2

Avatar
Sofia Leo
Springfield, Oregon

Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
February 18, 2012 - 8:07 pm
Member Since: April 6, 2011
Forum Posts: 466
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

The Luthiers would prefer that mere mortals don't mess with the inside (or outside except with a dry, lint-free cloth smile) because they're annoyed with fixing novice "mistakes" - I see it all the time on the forums. Bullocks, really! It ain't Rocket Science, they just want us to think it is and that's why there is precious little information out there aimed at the beginner. Be brave - a sound post can be stood back up, another bridge can be carved, any number of repairs and adjustments can be done by any player with a bit of patience and Common Sense, as you have proved to us all dancinbunny I do love that dancing bunny!

Mary in Springfield, Oregon http://www.thefiddleandbanjopr.....dpress.com

Avatar
cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
Members

Regulars
February 18, 2012 - 11:21 pm
Member Since: February 13, 2012
Forum Posts: 1818
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
33sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I agree with CatMcCall on the mystery surrounding the inside and outside. I also agree it ain't rocket science but is an acoustical science. You don't necessarily have to graduate from it in order to mess around with it to some degree and obtain the results you want, they just might take longer than you figured.

Now, Mr Oliver... I had a hand whittled soundpost of 51.17mm in length inside that old violin I restored in the previous posting of mine. I chose to make a new one from a very cylindrical, very straight grained dowel of spruce and since the original was so very tight, I chose to make it 51.13mm in length and it fit 'easier' and I was able to more easily position it where I wanted. It stays in without string tension and it sounded MUCH brighter and had a noticeable more volume for the amount of effort I put into playing it.

I suspect all of these things and more have an impact on your project as well. Just the thoughts of an acoustical beginner who has an engineering degree. 

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 18, 2012 - 11:40 pm
34sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I can't access to either file:(

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 19, 2012 - 5:26 am
35sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I liked the 1st violin in 22nd post, and 2nd in 24th post duncecap... Did i choose the different violins?duncecap

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 19, 2012 - 8:50 am

@MAD   Yes, you did choose different violins but the earlier post was recorded with a lower quality microphone.  The second post was closer to real life.

@cdennyb   I had just about the same experience here with a shorter sound post.  I did not suspect that the sound would improve (it did) but I wanted to be sure not to cause any plate cracking later on.

coffee2

I also had the sound volume increase.  Quite a bit.

Avatar
Guest
Guests
February 19, 2012 - 10:33 am
37sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

cdennyb,

many times the E string is muted and it is only because the soundpost is too tight so you making the post shorter was exactly what you needed to do.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 75
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today CarolineNH, JamesRSmithJr
Upcoming fryserisnon8, Picklefish, Shell, Schaick, GlassTownCur, Violinista Italiano, VirginViolinist, Cearbhael, SethroTull86, eugenephilip572, celeigh87
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 8824
ABitRusty: 4303
Mad_Wed: 2849
Gordon Shumway: 2731
Barry: 2690
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
stringy: 2367
Mark: 2272
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31780
Moderators: 0
Admins: 8
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 84
Topics: 10857
Posts: 137973
Newest Members:
Goldenbow, joanie, hunmari01, lydia.vertu SP, Thavence SP, tcaron21, Ustiana SP, DennisRathbone SP, Dan, JoeCase
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16537, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3746, JoakimSimplePress: 0, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 6092