@elcbk said... if I want to use the MPC Beats DAW, or even why I would want to (?), if I have PreSonus. 

Youll figure that out the more you mess with it.  

@elcbk said..."After watching "Studio One - Make the Click Track Play in Time With YOU! (Temp Mapping & Audio Bend)", posted in my other blog, I'm still wondering why I don't see more folks excited about this. "

"I DO believe it's important to first learn tight, well-executed tempo & rhythm - but NOW seems a good time to embrace current technology's ability to preserve more expressive use of both, in recording AND sharing click tracks for play-along!  "

I can only speak for me, but Im still working on solid jig/reel rhythm (groove) and trying to be in time, and the more i practice with a click, metronome, drum..etc.. the closer i hope to be.  Im not sure if im drifting its a good thing to make a click to my drifting for others at the moment.  Now, in a group it is what it is and thats what im practicing for.  Practicing to be better when we get together. 

I need to look at the tempo mapping feature some more to get a better feel for what I could use it for.  At the moment its good to know about though.  it may be something I can use to help see what im doing after recording.  maybe a sort of visual aid.  idk.  

Im glad you found and shared it though.. hadnt really paid attention to it all that much.  its up on the menu bar right in the middle, just one of those areas i dont mess with.

How are you planning to use...or what are you seeing in it that excited you?

@elcbk said.. "If there is no metronome, no drum - does this mean you can't have a wonderful groove"

no

I want to be precise if I am to play for people to march, dance, work, or if I was accompaniment.  Then again, I believe everyone has their own rhythm in their heart that should be explored, too.  Yngwie talks about how to accompany someone playing in 'free-time', but it's great if the tempo mapping can help others experience/practice pieces - to share in an improvised, freer expression

that sounds good until you shorten a dotted quarter note and rush in to the next measure twice and throw everyone elses timing off.  trust me, it aint fun getting the looks and even worse when the set comes crashing down.  true story..

the metronome helps with stuff like that.  groove is an entirely different thing.  you can be spot on with the notes and still hqve no feeling.  or have all kinds of expression and be all over the place on timing and only find that out when you get with 10 or 12 other people. another life lesson learned the embarrasing way along with playing too loud and not listening.

i think being in time is probably more important in a session than being very expressive.  that can come and in some way is shaped as you become more comfortable with th tune.  you can play a whole tune in time with no ornaments and reasonable intonation and fit in..   if you start rushing and cut notes short or too long you will be more of a distraction than part of the group

you have to learn the foundation of the tune first and i think a time reference helps.  another thing thats important is if you ( saying you as in general) use a recorded artists version to play along with.. sometimes that doesnt translate over well either.  good to keep in mind whats a performance and whats more session oriented.  thats another place a steady click or beat may be better.  but both ways help.  youll just fall more into the idiosyncrasies category you were mentioning.  but id rather do that than wing a new tune without either.

I think maybe youre talking more about finding a style or way of playing and being able to convey that to others more easily..whereas im talking about learning things to get up to speed with people that already plqy what im learning. 

Both things can exists.  I was just answering your question from above about why others arent excited about the tempo mapping feature from MY perspective 🙂  and im probably relating it to a thing that youre not as concerned about.

Btw, if you ever play with a just a small group of other fiddlers (no conductor, no metronome, no sheet music, no rhythm instrument) you are going to feel a tempo, but aren't you also susceptible to how everyone else is playing?  Don't you tend to slow down or speed up if they do - 'self-organize'? 

oh yes..youll settle in as a group to a groove.  as long as everyone is playing in time together.  dont be cutting that dotted quarter short though.  unless youre wanting everyone to play it like you do and can convince them to do it.  then youre the conductor and it turns into something else.

@ELCBK said
 

i think being in time is probably more important in a session than being very expressive.

I think maybe youre talking more about finding a style or way of playing and being able to convey that to others more easily..whereas im talking about learning things to get up to speed with people that already plqy what im learning. 

 

Yep... this is exploration, and your getting up to speed with who you play with comes first, but doesn't anyone ever just hang out with a few friends?  Even if I'm playing everything up to speed, I don't think I'd join a group that wasn't a little forgiving... life's too short. 😶

 

i can appreciate exploration.  my problem is i answered a rhetorical question...or read too literally into your presentation.  I thought you were wanting feedback on a presonus feature you found.  my bad and if you want to load it we can explore that feature more and see what we can come up with.  

as far as the group thing.. youre expanding a bit on a specific situation i was talking about.  on the flip side of a group being forgiving theres also the fact that everyone there has put time into practicing and is coming to play in a specific style.. maybe even tunes theyve played together or with others for longer than ive been playing.   Theres room for beginners in a learning sessiin but its not fair of me to use everyones time for my interpritive jazz rendenition of cooleys reel.

from post 48

Got me remembering some videos of fiddlers - all ages & levels trying to play together... swarm. 🤭 

...sorry, getting sidetracked

can be with larger groups.   played with one a few weeks ago that was over 50 im sure if not 100.  at that point things change a bit and you can improvise all you want and nobody is gonna hear except your immediate neighbor.  in a large group like that.. Its up to the inner circle to keep things tight...they did.  what im talking about is mainly 10 or less.  was that comment there b4? 🤔  cant believe i missed it 🤭

from post 48 above

I really like the idea of shadowing someone's improvisation that I admire - for learning.  Making a click track that matches, could come in handy for learning highly improvised pieces

one thing that may be easier is recording straight into studio one from youtube to a track.   from that you can right click and select mixdown.   That mixdown track can be slowed or increased allowing you to play along easier.  

The tempo mapping feature.... heres an idea ive thought about since reading your post about tempo mapping..   exploring importing midi files and mapping that to a tempo track.  

@elcbk said .."Your idea... not exactly sure what you are getting at.  At first, it sounds exactly the opposite of what it's meant for (if you mean to just make a tune conform to a tempo). 😖  Why not use bend markers & quantize - especially if you only drift in a few places?  Or, are you talking about matching several tracks to one specific tempo track (using melodyne?)?"

ahhh..but i think its exactly what its meant for! 😀   so.. when you go to say thesession and play a midi ..it sounds aweful.  its obvious its midi.   but lets say you import the audio of some fiddler playing a tune with a band.   you want to hear what he is doing more in isolation.   

you could try and eq out alot of the other pieces in the band and turn up the fiddle range.   

but if you tempo mapped the band.. then created a midi track and assigned it say a spitfire violin patch...or a flute or whistle.   

then brought in the midi notes from thesession of that song and tied it to the tempo mapped track.. youd be doing essentially what he did in your first tempo map video at approximately 10:00.   POST 46

in that video he tempo mapped his guitar and tied the drum beat to it.   midi is midi so the violin could be the same.   it wouldnt be exact and the tune version would have to be close ..but even the differences could be easily corrected once the base track is there.

then you would have the midi playing along to a more humanized tempo vs the right on the click no swing version that plays on thesession midi.  btw there is a humanize option on midi.  you select the track..right click i think it is and you can adjust it.  sometimes it gives it a less mechanical feel and a bit more groove.

one day ill try it and see how it works.

@elcbk said.."So (to me), audio needs to be separated from a music performance video (that we perceive is correct) - divide into tracks & CONVERT INTO notation, but what I've seen from converters isn't that great. "

I explained tempo mapping a real fiddler or band in POST 53 and matching the midi from the session to that.

whatever you perceieve or not... whatever you want to tempo map.   it could be you or martin hayes or brian conway.. either way...i describe tempo mapping a real performance and matching the midi to it.  NOT the other way around.

Melodyne allows the kind of stuff youre talking about..its a pain to try and do it though

the youtube thing on a phone would be an app.   theyre on google play and ive used a couple..they work

i prefer to use a track in presonus and just record there.  good way to practice to a youtube video because the slow down feature works better there than using youtubes... in MY opinion.

notion mobile has a swing adjustment as the desktop version does.

@elcbk here is where you can find..set..adjust the swing/tempo in notion mobile.  In the middle of tge video im just trying to set the play marker to the beginning of first measure.. so ignore that little episode..

I am DOUBLE tapping with finger the word SWING or double tapping the tempo mark to get in to the setting screen

 so, are you talking about about time bending the Session midi to match a performance - because you want a better midi when following a not-so-great score at the Session (?)

yes...i think..lol... hope we are talking same.   

if you have a performance you really like and find the notation of the tune thats close in thesession.  to get the timing...NOT THE ornamentation or slides...or individual extra notey things.. just the sorta timing.. do what he did in the video and line up the beat markers with the session notation MIDI EXPORT.

you have to export the midi and bring it in on a track with some VST instrument assigned.

i think the tempo mapping feature is a good thing for real to midi/vst instruments.  i just dont think for me doing a tempo map to make a click track so you can play to is as handy.   just listen and play along with my playing.   I say you and me as placeholders for anybody 🙂

so i can see me experimenting with the tempo mapper to line up vst instruments to my playing instead of going into the piano roll and adjusting individual midi notes.  And i am talking about any imported type score.   If i play the keyboard which is more common..then its basically a live type of performance with whatever mistakes i make as i play.   good thing with midi is u can just adjust those on the piano roll if they are few.   if the whole thing is bad...record again is best.