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Emily's Journey Down The E/V Road!
Guess it was time to start this.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (98 votes) 
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Mouse
June 17, 2024 - 9:04 pm
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@stringy It is in post 263 right below the recording.

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.

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ELCBK
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June 17, 2024 - 9:56 pm
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@stringy , @Mouse -

Thank you! 

Yes, the pdf (you can print out) is attached in post #263.  You should also be able to save the mp3 file.

I'd be thrilled to death if you felt like playing it! 🥰 

I had to slow it down to get those Cm areas learned right (found the end of the 'A' Part a bit hard to remember).  Been trying to figure out the smoothest way to bow this, while getting the accented staccatos on an UP-BOW, but I can still forget one (or 2) of them. 🥴  ...tied up with a couple Birthdays this week, but I've got it - and YOU WILL GET IT, TOO! 🤗  

If you'd like a slowed audio version to learn along with, just let me know... not a problem. 

 

giphy.gifI practiced & worked more on the bowing tonight. 

I'd rather NOT have to come off the string on a down-bow (if I can help it), rather have a driving up-bow on beats 1 & 4.  This might help, for now...

• It's feeling most natural to me starting with a DOWN-BOW on the pickup note. 

• The next 2 notes: SLURRED UP-BOW, using Collé (coming offstring), for the accented staccato (UC). 

 

This is how I'm bowing the pickup + first 4 measures: D/(UC)D(UC)D, (UC)DU-D, (UC)D(UC)D, (UC)DU-D, the next 4 measures DON'T have any collé/staccato... 

Let me know what you think.

 

How To Interpret Staccato 

 

...for anyone following that doesn't know what collé is - Collé Bowstroke Video

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ELCBK
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June 18, 2024 - 3:27 pm
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@stringy -

Here's another PDF (you can print out) of Wistful Thinking, with bowing marked, for the articulated areas - how I'm playing it, anyway.

(ref slurred up-bow in Post #282 - my OP is #263)

I realize I'm going to receive flack about breaking bowing 'rules' (up-bow on a down beat) for this, but I learned about "the power of the up-driven bow" from Alasdair Fraser's workshops - so, I practice dynamics equally in BOTH bowing directions. 

This is ONLY my suggestion (I might change my mind).  Play the rest of it with any slurs/bowing you wish.

Also, included a SLOWED-down mp3 version - to start playing along with.   

Hope this helps.   

 

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stringy
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June 18, 2024 - 6:02 pm
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Just downloaded your sheet music, plucked my way through it to get a feel for it, couldn't use my bow because of the time of night and respec for neighbours.  Didn't have time yesterday as I went watching 12th night at Shakespeare north.

Have to give a go tomorrow with the different bowing, must admit the A flat keeps throwing me lol, my fingers don't want to do it, I don't think I have ever played anything in C before either good practice, though.

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ELCBK
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@stringy -

🤣 Yeah, Cm... took me by surprise, too (I must be a glutten for punishment) - might just be more obvious because of the modulation.

I probably spent way too much time trying to decide which fingers to use for the flats - whether I wanted to feel my hand 'closing up' (squeezing fingers together), or 'opening up' (extending fingers) while playing.  Not sure I'm completely settled on one way.     

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stringy
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June 18, 2024 - 8:24 pm
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Ah, thats why I'm being caught out, didnt realise it was C minor, I am a dumbo. Should have been able to tell with the sound which is obviously  a minor key,makes it much easier.

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ELCBK
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June 18, 2024 - 8:37 pm
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@stringy -

Sorry... 'A' Part: starts in Cmaj, goes to Cm, back to Cmaj, then Cm again (parallel keys).  'B' Part: in Am (relative key). 

 

Don't beat yourself up over it - took me a while to even realize I didn't start in the key I had originally intended!

...don't think I make it very easy for anyone to follow my posts. 🥴

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ELCBK
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June 19, 2024 - 2:23 pm
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OMG 😩 I need to resolve something - so I can move on & back to EV.  

Pulling this forward, one thing is still nagging at me...

Does anyone hear/feel this in 3/4 time (instead of 6/8)?

I was listening to Turlough O'Carolan's "Planxty Hewlet".  I see it's usually written as 3/4 time, but I hear 6/8 - unless someone deliberately backs it with an Oom-pah-pah! 

I've immersed myself in music that could influence my thoughts on this... so, figured it's VERY possible I'm hearing/feeling this wrong! 

I did listen to Wistful Thinking, along with a waltz rhythm loop, then a 6/8 rhythm loop - still think it's in 6/8.

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Mouse
June 19, 2024 - 3:39 pm
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@ELCBK Now, you know me and my poor knowledge of different musics, but I just listened to it again, no problem because I really do like this, I think I hear it as 6/8. I picture the ladies in their long poofy dresses and fancy fans, with their "gents" dancing around in the castle in a circle, they are not waltzing. They are having a grand ol' time.

I also picture kids dancing and frolicking in a field, with baskets of field flowers they have picked, again, not waltzing. I picture many things when I hear some pieces of music.

Does this help?

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.

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stringy
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June 19, 2024 - 4:41 pm
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I think the accent is making you hear it as a waltz, bluffing your ears so to speak.

Personally I don't think it matters anyway as its a great tune.

Got you about the keys now:)

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ELCBK
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June 19, 2024 - 6:58 pm
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64fa2a6e7aaee2f96da210347e4fa946.jpg

 

@stringy , @Mouse -

Thank you both - that helps! 

Okay, I'm DONE thinking about anything more! 

...will work on chords later.

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Mouse
June 20, 2024 - 8:12 am
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@ELCBK Yep, you don't want to fall down my tunnel and overthink. 

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.

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ELCBK
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June 21, 2024 - 6:26 pm
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About "Wistful Thinking" having some Cm in it... 

I really don't like to have to think twice because of whatever KEY I'm playing in! 🤨  

 

Jeez, just couldn't believe that I don't played a Cm tune!   🤔... I DO!  

Skimmed back thru my blog, in post#205 I complained about "True" (from the 'My Demon' TV series) being in C#m, but last year (in post#116) there's a bit of a  discussion about "The Smokey Lum" (Stuart Morison/The Tannahill Weavers) - it's in Cm on a couple albums - AND THAT'S HOW I PLAY IT! 

When I learned how to play 'The Smokey Lum', it was ONLY the fast jumping around that concerned me - not what key it was in! 

...but, WHY? 

Well, maybe it's because having at least a 5-string violin can give more options for fingering accidentals in 1st position, but I think a lot has to do with how often we play accidentals (with each of our fingers) AND where the neighboring intervals fall within the melody!  I think it's also why tuning all strings down a half step (or whole) can make playing certain tunes easier to play across the strings, especially if you only have 4 strings. 

My point? 

Just because I composed "Wistful Thinking" in Cmaj/Cm/Am - DOESN'T MEAN THAT'S THE EASIEST for playing on Violin!  Now, I've gotten used to it, but I haven't tried it in Dmaj/Dm/Bm (which may be the easiest), or maybe Gmaj/Gm/Em, etc... 

💖 Please see attachments for a PDF of Wistful Thinking in Dmaj - 'A' Part in Dmaj & Dmin, 'B' Part is in Bm.  I haven't tried it yet, but included a reg tempo AND SLOW tempo (half speed) playback, if anyone wants to try THIS version.  NO KEY in the Key Signature (I'm still having issues) - but ALL accidentals are right. 

🤔... still, I don't think the Dmaj version has quite the impact of the original.

 

What do I really take away from this? 

I don't think any ONE key is the answer to what's 'easiest' for playing on the violin.  I do think it depends on the melodic structure of a tune. 

AND, even though I spent a lot of extra time strengthening my pinky last year... I don't think I concentrated enough on switching from lower to extended movement, or made it feel as 'naural' as using my other fingers.  ...more practice. 😊

This kinda has me wanting to transcribe some tunes I already know into the scales/modes I'm LEAST familiar with.  I have actively searched for specific keys in trad Irish & Scottish music, but it's hard to find anything unusual. 

 

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ABitRusty
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Youre rollin now @elcbk !  love it!  keep it up and cant wait to see how this tune evolves or how you add harmony

.etc.. or.. none.. which is fine too..and where this all leads!!

dancingthumbs-up

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ELCBK
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@ABitRusty - 

...kinda concerned about what I might be rollin' into! 😳 

The playback of the Dmaj/Dm/Bm version doesn't 'sound' as good (to me), doesn't have quite the same impact, as the Cmaj/Cm/Am original. 😡  ...it's the Dm areas buggin' me - maybe I'm just itching to try a different 'kind' of minor scale. 

I'd read that early composers thought that even major scales had different qualities/feeling!  I kinda chalked that up to tunings at the time, but maybe I'm missing something. 

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ABitRusty
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I would Play it how YOU like i mean its your tune!!!

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ELCBK
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I thought about transposing it lower, into the Viola range (I still might), but happy with the original vs the Dmaj - until I add some harmony.

...nomatter what, it's been a good exercise for me - amongst all the other stuff I play. 

I highly recommend everyone create their own tune!

Haven't been able to practice much this last couple weeks - and I seriously hate how it feels. 🤬  It may only be my imagination, but seems like I lose ground if I don't at least run thru some tunes once a day!

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Fiddlerman
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July 15, 2024 - 10:26 am
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ELCBK said
OMG 😩 I need to resolve something - so I can move on & back to EV.  

Pulling this forward, one thing is still nagging at me...

Does anyone hear/feel this in 3/4 time (instead of 6/8)?

I was listening to Turlough O'Carolan's "Planxty Hewlet".  I see it's usually written as 3/4 time, but I hear 6/8 - unless someone deliberately backs it with an Oom-pah-pah! 

I've immersed myself in music that could influence my thoughts on this... so, figured it's VERY possible I'm hearing/feeling this wrong! 

I did listen to Wistful Thinking, along with a waltz rhythm loop, then a 6/8 rhythm loop - still think it's in 6/8.

It makes no difference in this case whether it is 3/4 or 6/8.
I would say depending on the speed that you want it performed at, this could be a deciding factor, though it can still be done either way.

Congrats on writing your own composition. thumbs-up

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ELCBK
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@Fiddlerman -

Thank you so much! 

BUT... you're killin' me! 

Fiddlerman said:

It makes no difference in this case whether it is 3/4 or 6/8.
I would say depending on the speed that you want it performed at, this could be a deciding factor, though it can still be done either way. 

...because trying to learn the difference between 3/4 & 6/8 is STILL DRIVING ME NUTS! 

If 3/4 time (in 8th notes) is supposed to be counted [1 and 2 and 3 and], 6/8 time is [1 and ah 2 and ah] - they are different feels to me.

Now, I can see where 6/8 could be the same as 3/8 (with more bar lines) - only if I don't hear 6 eighth notes belonging together. 

Isn't it more about feeling how the notes belong together (grouping/the phrasing), than the tempo? 

So, even though 3/4 could technically be written as 6/4 (with less bar lines)... but most of the music I hear in 6/4 just doesn't sound anything like 3/4!  

 

🤔... this is pretty important - so by the way I have accented, should I be notating this differently?   (Sorry for even asking, you're supposed to be relaxing & having fun right now!)  I mean, mazurkas are in 3/4, but the accent is on beat 2, not 1... might be what I've unintentionally done here (?) 

 

idk - still feeling like the notes should be grouped in 6, though - otherwise, the only thing buggin' me while playing this is a feeling of needing a little 'space' in at least one spot (not sure if changing the last quarter note in the 'A' part to an eighth & eighth rest will be enough)... plus I'm liking a tempo of no more than 85 BPM, not 90. 

 

These Videos I recently watched - think they just make me ask more questions!

 

Songs that use 6/4 time.  What's interesting - David says he hears Hozier's "Take Me To Church" is in 6/4 whereas published sheet music is in 3/4.  When it's written in 3/4 time - it doesn't sound (to me) like a 3/4 groove I'd expect to hear.

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ABitRusty
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ELCBK said
@Fiddlerman -

Thank you so much! 

BUT... you're killin' me! 

Fiddlerman said:

It makes no difference in this case whether it is 3/4 or 6/8.

I would say depending on the speed that you want it performed at, this could be a deciding factor, though it can still be done either way. 

...because trying to learn the difference between 3/4 & 6/8 is STILL DRIVING ME NUTS! 

If 3/4 time (in 8th notes) is supposed to be counted [1 and 2 and 3 and], 6/8 time is [1 and ah 2 and ah] - they are different feels to me.

Now, I can see where 6/8 could be the same as 3/8 (with more bar lines) - only if I don't hear 6 eighth notes belonging together. 

Isn't it more about feeling how the notes belong together (grouping/the phrasing), than the tempo? 

So, even though 3/4 could technically be written as 6/4 (with less bar lines)... but most of the music I hear in 6/4 just doesn't sound anything like 3/4!  

 

🤔... this is pretty important - so by the way I have accented, should I be notating this differently?   (Sorry for even asking, you're supposed to be relaxing & having fun right now!)  I mean, mazurkas are in 3/4, but the accent is on beat 2, not 1... might be what I've unintentionally done here (?) 

 

idk - still feeling like the notes should be grouped in 6, though - otherwise, the only thing buggin' me while playing this is a feeling of needing a little 'space' in at least one spot (not sure if changing the last quarter note in the 'A' part to an eighth & eighth rest will be enough)... plus I'm liking a tempo of no more than 85 BPM, not 90. 

 

These Videos I recently watched - think they just make me ask more questions!

 

Songs that use 6/4 time.  What's interesting - David says he hears Hozier's "Take Me To Church" is in 6/4 whereas published sheet music is in 3/4.  When it's written in 3/4 time - it doesn't sound (to me) like a 3/4 groove I'd expect to hear.

  

 


These Videos I recently watched - think they just make me ask more questions!

 

I wonder if maybe thats part of the problem?  I know youre probably coming at this from ..what if i have no aural reference and have to rely on sheet music only to figure out how this is "supposed" sound.. but you dont.   you ( we all ) have audio these days to hear how the music should sound.

Maybe just listen to hozier and play the notes like you hear him play and ignore what the time sig says... have you tried that?

 

idk - still feeling like the notes should be grouped in 6, though - otherwise, the only thing buggin' me while playing this is a feeling of needing a little 'space' in at least one spot....

when you play it..can you not just do that then?

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