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Burning Out from Violin Stress
How to progress in violin and be in it for the long game, without burning out from stress or anxiety.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (14 votes) 
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eddy20

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July 25, 2015 - 10:15 am
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 Hey everyone!

 

So I've seen many of my friends lock themselves up in the practice room all year, until they burn out and literally break down into tears. I've seen it multiple times at the music conservatorium I studied at, and I myself have had a similar situation. 

 

Reading some of the posts in this forum, I'm realizing there is a major challenge many of us face - yet there is very little written about this topic. In fact, I believe the process of getting really good at violin (and other skills) involve a strong psychological game. 

 

So please, if you are suffering from self-doubt, anxiety or depression from feeling the need to practice and 'get better', take a moment to watch this video. 

https://youtu.be/5Swy8KjBttA

Let me know what you guys think - if you agree or not.

Eddy

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ElisaDalViolin

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July 25, 2015 - 11:37 am
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Hi Eddy! Welcome to the forum!

First of all, thank you for sharing your video. I'm a big fan of 2set, I didn't know you had an individual channel! 

Thank you for putting these thoughts in words. I was suprised when you started to describe the dabbler character because I've been struggling to understand why most younger students have this attitude of "oh I can't play " now when they are in a great path and stop going to classes while at the same time they ensure they love violin. I've discussed this so many times with my teacher because it really is a pity seeing good students giving up. Also, I didn't know the word itself so thank you, I've learned something new today!

When I started to play violin, my progress skyrocketed till the end of 2-3 year when I definitively reached a big plateau and then, shortly after, I went on a hiatus for a while due to college. After my return, I consider myself in the 2nd character you described. It's a mixed feeling because you know you are willing to fight and make progress but the results doesn't show up and that hurts emotionally. Relaxing is the key but it's easier said than done for people like me because it seems we lose control of things.  It really is a psychological game, like you said.

 
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July 25, 2015 - 11:38 am

Very enlightening video, thanks Eddy.

I can see all three points in many members here, including myself.

Great stuff.

 

Ken.

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DanielB
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July 25, 2015 - 3:38 pm
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Good stuff, Mr Chen.  "Liked" and subscribed.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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JoeP

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July 26, 2015 - 10:13 pm
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I also have been a big fan and am now even more so.  Awesome message, particularly for us adult starters.  Thank you!

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
July 27, 2015 - 9:32 am
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Yup - I have no expectations to ever be a concert violinist - but I am driven by the "possibilities of playing like.... ( you can name them...  pick ANY one great player )".   

I'll tell you this folks, there have been moments that "could have been dark" in the as yet short journey I have had with the violin - but - there is ALWAYS something more to learn ( be it a different technique, getting used to different timings, different WHATEVER ).  I have seen myself simply change to a new ( different ) set of strings - not because I had "problems" with the set that was on - I just wanted to experience the difference...

I loved the video info @eddy20 - my "plateaus", which of course I have, are to me "consolidation periods".   I have seen days where I struggled off and on ( my practice schedules vary - but generally will be around 1hr 30mins to 2 hrs per day broken into 20 or max 30 min sessions ) - but - for me - the REAL significant issue is - if I am having trouble with something - I'll drop it.  Dump it.  Leave it.  Never touch it again for the next two days.  Then come back to it, and, a few minutes into it I begin to "see" what was wrong.  It's still not where I want it - but I'll work with it for a bit until I'm on the "edge" of getting the next step - then - when I realize I am "fighting" I walk away, for another day or so - and work on something different ( different technique, different tune, whatever ).

Of course - I have no goals or pressure other than the ones I set myself - it's not like I HAVE to perform on Saturday or whatever.  I play this darned instrument for so-called "fun" ( actually, I love it - that was just a bit of Scottish sarcasm! )

But, I really do "get" what you said in the video eddy20 !  Cool ! 

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
July 28, 2015 - 10:00 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16543

Welcome to the forum Eddie. I saw many students and colleagues suffer from anxiety and depression and yes, we do tend to put a lot of pressure on ourselves.

What are you doing presently? Studies? Performance? Teaching? Something completely different?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Uzi
Georgia

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July 28, 2015 - 5:15 pm
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Great points.  Thanks.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. ~Herm Albright

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RedViolin
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July 29, 2015 - 8:27 pm
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Great video Eddy - and one that is relevant not just to players of other musical instruments, but probably quite generally! I can identify tendencies of all three that you mention...! Good food for thought, thanks for sharing!note

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eddy20

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July 30, 2015 - 10:12 am
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Thanks for the positive feedbacks everyone!

@ElisaDalViolin  - I'm always happy to meet a fan! Yep i've definitely oscillated in and out of all 3 at different times of my life, but have also enjoyed some great periods (sometimes even just short-lived moments) in my life where violin meant only about expression, fun and dedication. As with the students, I myself am still trying to find the best ways to instill great learning mindsets in students, so let me know if you have any suggestions or insights on that!

Hi @Fiddlerman - I'm playing in the Queensland Symphony Orchestra this year as a contract casual violinist. Outside of that, I co-run a Facebook violin comedy page called 'Twoset Violin', and have recently become much more serious and passionate about teaching. Thanks for the welcome :)

@BillyG Love the Scottish sarcasm. Yes I find sometimes it is helpful to leave a problem for a while to come back to with a fresh mind. Other times, I find working at the problem with an open, inquisitive mind that is not too 'self-critical or judging' can bring awesome insights too. But I love how you remain conscious of the most important fact - that we should play it out of love. 

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Jim Dunleavy
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September 4, 2019 - 6:04 am
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Wow, Eddy Chen from 2-set is a member of this forum! Impressed!

 

Thanks for the ancient thread revival @PoinsonJay .

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ABitRusty
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September 4, 2019 - 8:34 am
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Haha..I 2nd that Jim.  And as far as "supplements"  its violin..we have to be self destructive to even attempt it.  There have been Many fiddle tunes written about the need for playing supplements such as..whiskey for breakfast..errr or is that whiskey before breakfast..well that would probably mean farewell to whiskey if a person over does it so lets be careful with those supplements.  Probably should just not even bother with them.

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Gordon Shumway
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September 5, 2019 - 8:07 am
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Wow, Eddy Chen from 2-set is a member of this forum! Impressed!

Was, if genuine. I didn't realise this was a 4-year-old thread until now.

Andrew

Verified human - the ignominy!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 8, 2019 - 12:07 pm
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Sometimes we must remind ourselves to have fun. There are different ways of practicing and performing. Your individual personality will often determine h0w stressful the learning process will be.
No matter what kind of person you are, take time to have fun while playing.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ELCBK
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September 9, 2023 - 6:09 pm
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Bumping up this important thread.

I noticed the OP video is no longer available - it's because there is a newer version! 

 

AND, while I'm at it, another good video.  We've ALL had at least one of these issues at some point! 

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ELCBK
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July 14, 2024 - 11:45 am
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We've talked about how physical & mental health awareness is important not only while learning to play an instrument, but also for continued enjoyment as a musician. 

Sharing a couple recent videos for musicians in general - many folks will be able to relate, if only in part. 

 

Rob Scallon talks about mental health struggles that I found very interesting.  🤔... easy to see how hard it might be to notice what's happening. 

It's really great that he talks about this. 

Wow - looks like the 'Fretless' Game will be cool when it comes out!

 

Phillip Conrad talks about unhealthy practicing and expectations, "Musicians Beware: The Dangers of the Shed".

*I deleted - catch more about this video in the OP of: You don't win at music... Thread

 

I'm not sure about the warning against comparisons. 

I think there is 'healthy' comparison that can be a motivating factor for learning & improving skills, if realistic expectations.  I don't expect to be able to do anything as well as someone who has practiced a lifetime, but I DO expect a little improvement (in some form) for my efforts... I try to place EXTREMELY loose time constraints on myself.  

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Gordon Shumway
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July 19, 2024 - 6:18 am
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I'm not sure about the warning against comparisons. 

I think there is 'healthy' comparison that can be a motivating factor for learning & improving skills, if realistic expectations. 

I'll join in with this thread rather than abitrusty's, as there seems to be a little more constructive criticism here, and the above remark doesn't crop up there (unless I read it too quickly).

There's a lot of blank barnum talk in the video.

Many of the things are said as though objective, when people will compare what he says with themselves, making it subjective.

The word "chop" means at least three different things, and in the world of guitarists, believe me, one in a thousand knows what he's talking about. (the correct usage "they're" would have resulted in ambiguity)

Originally the word "chop" literally meant your jaw, and it was used of wind players/harmonica players, who had played long enough for them to have jaws of great endurance. Then it came to mean anyone who can do anything with great endurance. Now, I'm guessing, many a young guitarist will use the word "chop" to mean " piece of shredding" (that's not meant to be a serious comment).

"There's no right way and wrong way to practise"

Of course there are wrong ways!

Practise means repeating over and over again to the less well trained (yes, after a year doing that in a shed they will come out crying), but it means isolating a technical problem and playing slowly to someone who is better trained. For instance, string crossing. On my (2 octave) scales I am practising as follows: 1. place LH fingers; 2. place bow; 3. start bow; 4. move LH fingers; 5. stop bowing; 6. place LH fingers on new string; 7. move bow to new string; 8. start bowing; 9. move LH fingers, etc. Do that slowly then speed up.

For me comparison is important because one has to see results, i.e. see oneself progress. (and because I'm a late beginner, and death is approaching, I want asap to be as good on the violin as I was on the piano 45 years ago and then progress)

Peers are important. At school everyone has been learning their instruments together for roughly the same amount of time (unless you're one of those violinists who began aged 4 months)

One doesn't so much compare oneself with peers as feel that one belongs to a group somewhere - you acknowledge each other. As an adult learner, that's harder. And I've felt it both in violin learning and doing a BA. At school I only did sciences. So, as a mature student doing a BA (between the ages of 39 and 44), I didn't have a clue how to write an essay, or at which level to pitch the English I was using when writing. I just had to overwork to make sure I did enough work. That wasn't so bad - I was very lucky to be doing a collaborative scheme where I could quickly find niches I fitted into and exploit them (i.e. engineer results).

With the violin it's harder. In piano exams it's all about expression (with good technique implied). But violin exams are marked in a more piecemeal manner - you get separate marks for intonation, for example, and the violin is far more technical than the piano. Then you can wonder "well, I know my intonation is perfect, so does that distort the result, meaning I won't know how I compare with others at technique and expression?" If I had friends who played the violin I could find out where I'm at by listening to them. As it is, the orchestral peers I've got often haven't had a lesson for 50 years and haven't practised for 51 years!

Andrew

Verified human - the ignominy!

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ELCBK
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July 19, 2024 - 2:33 pm
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I certainly didn't agree with everything in the video.  I just felt the overall msg was to be mindful of our mental & physical health while working on our musical skills.

IMHO mindless practice is a waste of time (I also feel a sense of urgency, starting Violin at late time in life).  It makes sense to me that 'mindful' practice helps us sound good - at least better than if we don't practice with some objectives. 

I can pretend I'm playing with others by playing along with recordings - this is good for learning a tune, but I think it would be an exciting challenge to learn to react with the unpredictable nature of a live situation. 

EVERYONE (here) helps me see/understand more about the bond we can have with music.  I don't have the stress of competition, or exams, thank goodness - only what I chose to challenge myself with.  The only music peers I have are here, on the forum.  So, having a connection with peers, being able to share ideas & problems - is priceless to me.  You ALL motivate me to try new music, try new skills & have helped me become a better musician.  Each year I feel more enjoyment out of playing music - not only because I practice and challenge myself, but because I know others (here) understand there is something special about learning to play the fiddle. 

 

The controversy surrounding musical terms is mind-blowing, especially pertaining to different instruments.  I've seen/heard guitarists use the term 'chops' & 'shredding' like they were the same thing (as fast, intricate, skillful playing) - but 'chops' on the fiddle is a percussive bowing technique.

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Gordon Shumway
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July 21, 2024 - 12:17 pm
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Can't block quote yet on this horrible tablet. Chopping with the bow, sure. Also on uke e.g. we call the style of accompaniment chunking or chugging.

Andrew

Verified human - the ignominy!

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