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One of my initial quests, when I picked up the Fiddle to learn (besides playing techniques & genre immersions) - was to figure out what makes great music sound good! With the help of folks here on the forum (allowing me to ask MANY questions & explore ideas in many threads) I went from ABSOLUTE ZERO → to gaining a fairly decent grasp during these last few years - by self-learning to fit my needs!
I THRIVE ON VISUALIZATION! ...no big secret.
Rhythm is still VERY high on my priority list, but ther's more to what makes music 'good'.
This is an interesting presentation, "Visualizing Musical Structure", by Dmitri Tymoczko. He starts with a little history, shows how folks were seeking to include so many details in models - they became too complex. EVOLVES to: a simple, easy to understand model for how scales, chords & chord progressions relate to each other & ideas to use it. How musical motives (motif) move - levels of hierarchy.
...started the video just past intro. AND, there's a little discussion on tunings & microtones at the end, too.
💥 The one thing that Dmitri didn't jump out & shout, was by seeing chords as scales - WE'RE TALKING MODES, TOO!!!
Worth me repeating from the Modal Scale/Keys Thread:
For us average hobbyists → Dmitri has a wonderful site - Mad Musical Science!
ON THE SITE - there are 3 short videos showing an easy to understand, but novel way to think of 1.) scales, 2.) chords & 3.) chord progressions.
NEXT... if you click on his 'software' link you'll see a whole series of virtual playgrounds to explore!
INTERESTING NOTE: Dmitri Tymoczko has written code with algorithms that more reliably break down the ways famous Baroque & Classical Composers created music! His ARCA "pattern language" may soon be available for DAW software to incorporate - like PreSonus, Pro Logic, etc... will be GREAT to use elements in popular/modern music!
Dmitri talks about ARCA and more indepth on music hierarchy in THIS video.
LOVE that his presentations are for folks that may have NO music or Math background!
...ah ha! Adam Neely: "Repetition Legitimizes!" 🤣
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There's a lot of things I can't be bothered trying to memorize, because I just haven't needed to use the info enough, or on a regular basis. Not playing a chording instrument has probably slowed me down, but since I've been cramming a lot of learning into a relatively short period of time, I don't mind resorting to charts - 3D is even better!
I haven't made it over to Dmitri's playground, yet - but he HAS influenced my thinking. Instead, I've been looking at my favorite modal circle of 5ths chart to see if I can't get better use of it, or change it to fit my needs better.
I LOVE that this chart helps me identify what key a tune is in, shows me relative scales & parallel scales (and their accidentals) - BUT, it doesn't help me enough when it comes to the quality & function of chords, for chord progressions!
So, I need to add another 'slice to the pie' - to show Scale Degree Chord Function (supertonic, mediant, submediant, etc...) & Quality (Major, Minor, Diminished, Dominant, Half Diminished). AND, reorganize each key to show order of scale degree 1-7.
Now there ARE other circle of 5ths charts which some of you may like to use... especially if you have MUCH more info memorized about modes & chords than I do! Mike George's YT Channel has GREAT videos on using the Circle of 5ths with Modes & Chords: Circle of Fifths Video Playlist. There is still too much jumping around in any of these for my liking.
So, 1.) I'd keep the circle in fifths, the neighboring keys are important. 2.) I'd put all the relative scales within each of the 12 key 'pie slices' in scale degree order. 3.) I'd add a slice with the corresponding Functions & Quality. 4.) I'd use 12, more distinct, colors. 5.) I'd shape it like a DONUT! 🤔... a PIE DONUT! (my diet is killin' me 🤭)
RIGHT NOW... I'm wishing I'd taken some courses in CAD Software or 3D computer illustration!!!
Jeez, I don't have the time to learn that, so guess I'll be doing this the old fashion way - drawing on paper (I'm feeling soooo pathetically inept 🥴). 🤔... wow, sewing a patchwork quilted donut & embroidering the info on it, would be cool - maybe a gift for the kids some day!
So why am I even thinking like this?
It's NOT going to help me during playing (not yet, anyway), but it will help me lay out things to practice. I'd like to get where it feels as easy to navigate as the fingerboard, for composing!
1.) It helps if I can 'see' all the relationships.
2.) It will be easier to see the note order of Scales/Modes (with the accidentals), Triad Chords, Seven Chords, & even Extended Chords that can be used, without memorizing.
3.) Easily spot not only the Tonic chords, but Mediant & Submediant Chords for use in modulation between parallel scales.
4.) I think it will also help me see where I can create different Chord Progressions, maybe with chord substitutions I wouldn't normally think of.
5.) The 'donut' shape kinda comes from Dmitri's spiral model. If you can picture the notes of scale strung along a string - that string can wrap around a section of the donut!
...wasn't expecting to start another project!
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nothing wrong with visual aides especially when getting a handle on things. I know im not going to be doing any backing in real time for anybody else but myself so it takes some pressure off. I dont feel bad juat using the same ol same ol... lol.
"BUT, it doesn't help me enough when it comes to the quality & function of chords, for chord progressions! "
this is the trick and whats neat about really good backers... along with solid rhythm of course... and i would say it takes alot of practice just working things out. its nice having people to play with that work on that while we are off working on melody.. neat.
i used to practice writing out chord progressions for different modes of different keys.. i think it helps. that and the chord wheel should be helpful. theres no right chord progression for any of the tunes... just what the backer chooses at the time. someone else may pick one entirely different one that works as well.
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I wanted to focus a bit on Melodic Structure. Rhythm isn't the only thing that drives music. ...and 'drive', is something everyone wants to have & use when playing, or creating music.
I believe adding the right kind of melodic embellishment, at the right time, can enhance the feel of 'drive' (other opinions welcome). 'We' can add it to tunes, or avoid playing tunes that don't have enough drive. I'm just starting to be able to spot these things when I look at notation (easier for me to hear it).
There's 4 videos on 'Melodic Structure' in this 8-Bit Music Theory 'Minute' Playlist, but it's also helpful to analyze an example. Just so happens, 8-Bit has a recent video!
Just for the fun of it, 'LEAF Music Structure'! 🍁🍂 We all know Mother Nature can inspire us to create music, but this is kicking it up a notch!
Doesn't have to be a leaf!
🤔... got to thinking. If I was going to map a leaf, I'd associate peaks with higher pitch & the troughs low pitch (mountains are high/valleys low). AND, what if the leaf had Fall colors? Leaf color would HAVE to translate to 'tonal color', maybe dynamics.
Marc made his own mapping program... I would have to improvise - don't see myself using a program to create music, but the concept is VERY COOL!
Almost forgot I wanted to make my own Modal Circle of Fifths. Maybe this year I can add designing/embroidering/quilting a 'Modal Circle of Fifths Pillow' to my goals. Be nice if I can make it cool enough that the Kids would want it. ...probably end up a cat cushion. 🥴
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I thought I would respond to one part of our DM here concerning that "Minute Mood" beat/short piece I did.
Yes, part of it is certainly Phrygian mode, though these days I am trying to actually get out of thinking in scales and modes, and instead just follow intervals. I think it's because my view has been changing on music theory, and instead of considering a tool for composing music, merely as a tool for communicating about it.
Oh, and if you didn't notice, I also jumped in to Phrygian mode in my version of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" as well. 
I think it just comes down to the path I have taken in music. Guitar was my first real 'main' instrument and I struggled with that for years. It did teach me a lot though about how to learn other instruments - by learning how to NOT LEARN efficiently on the guitar.
But for example, while I am best on the guitar technically, I am finding that I improvise more freely on keyboard and even on violin. Part of the reason is because while I know scales and keyboards on piano and violin, I do not know them as well. So it is something I am working with my teach with - trying to keep how free I feel while learning.
I think some of it came down for me, was trying too hard to visualize how things all work to the point it became a constraint to me. Not that learning theory and visualizing is bad, I think I just initially may have ingrained it in a way that was not good for me, and now I am trying to get out of it.
I did enjoy that Dissecting Melody video, my violin teacher often brings that up on pieces in lessons, what the overall melody is around the passing tones. And there have been times I have improvised and composed pieces that way too. It certainly plays in to where I am trying to get thinking more of intervals than just being completely scalar.
And while this isn't necessarily the music visualization you are thinking of, here is a completely different way of visualizing music that I thought might interest you:
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@Sasha -
And while this isn't necessarily the music visualization you are thinking of, here is a completely different way of visualizing music that I thought might interest you:
Thanx - I had NOT seen this. Definitely fits the topic here!
Different perspectives are so important because they can foster growth of new ideas.
Goerthe: “Music is liquid architecture and Architecture is frozen music”
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Can't remember if we've talked much about 'song structure' - or, if I just wanted to, but forgot.
Dance steps effect fiddle music phrasing, so can the lyrics in 'songs'. We sing songs and remember their tunes because of it.
Stress, Accent, Rhythm, and Pitch in Words and Sentences: Mastering the Melody of Language
Stress, accent, rhythm, and pitch are the building blocks of prosody, the musical aspect of language that gives speech its characteristic flow and melody. Stress refers to the emphasis placed on certain syllables or words, while accent encompasses the distinctive way in which a language or dialect is pronounced. Rhythm is the pattern of stressed and unstressed elements in speech, and pitch relates to the highness or lowness of one’s voice. Together, these elements contribute to effective communication by adding layers of meaning beyond the mere words themselves.
Parts of a 'song' make the structure. I have no problem identifying a verse & chorus, but anything above & beyond... 🥴 From 14 Parts of a Song and Song Structure Explained (Guitar Lobby):
The different parts of a song include an intro, verse, pre-chorus, refrain, hook, chorus, interlude, bridge, breakdown chorus, solo, and outro. In modern dance and electronic music, there are also other parts such as a breakdown, build/rise, and a drop.
There are many types of hooks you may come across, such as:
The first lines of a chorus
The last lines of a chorus
The title of the song
A melodic riff in the song
A rhythmic section
A specific sound used in the song
I never gave it much thought before - it would be great to have some way to 'visualize' types of songs.
...guess what I found?
I've shared many videos of Violinists,Violists and Cellists playing 'song' covers & I like to play them, too!
...what about 'post chorus', 'bridge', 'hook' - and where does a 'solo' come in? 😵
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@Sasha said:
Yes, part of it is certainly Phrygian mode, though these days I am trying to actually get out of thinking in scales and modes, and instead just follow intervals. I think it's because my view has been changing on music theory, and instead of considering a tool for composing music, merely as a tool for communicating about it.
Thanks for making me think about this!
I understand since, first & foremost, I learn by ear - but didn't you have to go through all the 'learning to identify everything' phase... before you got to where you are now?
I hate 'thinking' about ANYTHING during playing, so I have to do it beforehand. And, it's not like we all haven't got a zillion tools & skills to practice! Analysis/Visualization ARE just tools - and the more we practice & become skilled at using tools, the less we have to think about them... feels like they can become automatic, like our brain turns them into 'zip files'!
Even though I don't need to know what scale/mode, or structure a melody is ('if' I hear it) - but knowing can prepare me for what I'll hear/feel & 'where' I can expect the important intervals. What about after a while (years? 🤣), I feel playing a basic melody become boring. I look for what my known/unknown options (as tools) are... which leads me to combine elements, or change/try something different. It's part of my creative process (with anything) - it's where I start making choices.
...been thinking about osmosis. I'll just say I've listened to music my whole life, but feel I'm only gaining an understanding of music here, on the forum, in a comparatively short period, because we talk about theory & so many musical elements I was not aware of. 🤗
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