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Visualizing Musical Structure
...what makes music sound good?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
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ELCBK
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May 14, 2024 - 4:08 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
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One of my initial quests, when I picked up the Fiddle to learn (besides playing techniques & genre immersions) - was to figure out what makes great music sound good!  With the help of folks here on the forum (allowing me to ask MANY questions & explore ideas in many threads) I went from ABSOLUTE ZERO → to gaining a fairly decent grasp during these last few years - by self-learning to fit my needs! 

I THRIVE ON VISUALIZATION!  ...no big secret. 

Rhythm is still VERY high on my priority list, but ther's more to what makes music 'good'. 

This is an interesting presentation, "Visualizing Musical Structure", by Dmitri Tymoczko.  He starts with a little history, shows how folks were seeking to include so many details in models - they became too complex.  EVOLVES to: a simple, easy to understand model for how scales, chords & chord progressions relate to each other & ideas to use it.  How musical motives (motif) move - levels of hierarchy. 

...started the video just past intro.  AND, there's a little discussion on tunings & microtones at the end, too. 

 
💥 The one thing that Dmitri didn't jump out & shout, was by seeing chords as scales - WE'RE TALKING MODES, TOO!!!  

 

Worth me repeating from the Modal Scale/Keys Thread:

For us average hobbyists → Dmitri has a wonderful site - Mad Musical Science

ON THE SITE - there are 3 short videos showing an easy to understand, but novel way to think of 1.) scales, 2.) chords & 3.) chord progressions. 

NEXT... if you click on his 'software' link you'll see a whole series of virtual playgrounds to explore! 

INTERESTING NOTE: Dmitri Tymoczko has written code with algorithms that more reliably break down the ways famous Baroque & Classical Composers created music!  His ARCA "pattern language" may soon be available for DAW software to incorporate - like PreSonus, Pro Logic, etc... will be GREAT to use elements in popular/modern music! 

Dmitri talks about ARCA and more indepth on music hierarchy in THIS video. 

LOVE that his presentations are for folks that may have NO music or Math background!   

 

 

...ah ha!  Adam Neely: "Repetition Legitimizes!" 🤣

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ELCBK
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June 4, 2024 - 3:32 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
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There's a lot of things I can't be bothered trying to memorize, because I just haven't needed to use the info enough, or on a regular basis.  Not playing a chording instrument has probably slowed me down, but since I've been cramming a lot of learning into a relatively short period of time, I don't mind resorting to charts - 3D is even better! 

I haven't made it over to Dmitri's playground, yet - but he HAS influenced my thinking.  Instead, I've been looking at my favorite modal circle of 5ths chart to see if I can't get better use of it, or change it to fit my needs better. 

1202d9d5d841c383bbd58601a168028c.jpgImage Enlarger

I LOVE that this chart helps me identify what key a tune is in, shows me relative scales & parallel scales (and their accidentals) - BUT, it doesn't help me enough when it comes to the quality & function of chords, for chord progressions! 

So, I need to add another 'slice to the pie' - to show Scale Degree Chord Function (supertonic, mediant, submediant, etc...) & Quality (Major, Minor, Diminished, Dominant, Half Diminished).  AND, reorganize each key to show order of scale degree 1-7. 

Now there ARE other circle of 5ths charts which some of you may like to use... especially if you have MUCH more info memorized about modes & chords than I do!  Mike George's YT Channel has GREAT videos on using the Circle of 5ths with Modes & Chords: Circle of Fifths Video Playlist.  There is still too much jumping around in any of these for my liking. 

So, 1.) I'd keep the circle in fifths, the neighboring keys are important.  2.) I'd put all the relative scales within each of the 12 key 'pie slices' in scale degree order.  3.) I'd add a slice with the corresponding Functions & Quality.  4.) I'd use 12, more distinct, colors.  5.) I'd shape it like a DONUT! 🤔... a PIE DONUT!  (my diet is killin' me 🤭)

RIGHT NOW... I'm wishing I'd taken some courses in CAD Software or 3D computer illustration!!! 

Jeez, I don't have the time to learn that, so guess I'll be doing this the old fashion way - drawing on paper (I'm feeling soooo pathetically inept 🥴).  🤔... wow, sewing a patchwork quilted donut & embroidering the info on it, would be cool - maybe a gift for the kids some day! 

So why am I even thinking like this? 

It's NOT going to help me during playing (not yet, anyway), but it will help me lay out things to practice.  I'd like to get where it feels as easy to navigate as the fingerboard, for composing! 

1.) It helps if I can 'see' all the relationships.

2.) It will be easier to see the note order of Scales/Modes (with the accidentals), Triad Chords, Seven Chords, & even Extended Chords that can be used, without memorizing. 

3.) Easily spot not only the Tonic chords, but Mediant & Submediant Chords for use in modulation between parallel scales.

4.) I think it will also help me see where I can create different Chord Progressions, maybe with chord substitutions I wouldn't normally think of.  

5.) The 'donut' shape kinda comes from Dmitri's spiral model.  If you can picture the notes of scale strung along a string - that string can wrap around a section of the donut! 

 

...wasn't expecting to start another project!

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ABitRusty
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June 4, 2024 - 7:28 pm
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nothing wrong with visual aides especially when getting a handle on things. I know im not going to be doing any backing in real time for anybody else but myself so it takes some pressure off.   I dont feel bad juat using the same ol same ol... lol.  

"BUT, it doesn't help me enough when it comes to the quality & function of chords, for chord progressions! "

this is the trick and whats neat about really good backers... along with solid rhythm of course... and i would say it takes alot of practice just working things out.  its nice having people to play with that work on that while we are off working on melody.. neat.  

i used to practice writing out chord progressions for different modes of different keys.. i think it helps.  that and the chord wheel should be helpful.   theres no right chord progression for any of the tunes... just what the backer chooses at the time.  someone else may pick one entirely different one that works as well.  

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