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I didn't want to drag Mouse's Blog down a rabbit hole, but she makes a valid point!
Mouse said
Everything is harder on my viola and violin. I think it is the way the viola and violin are held compared to the cello. The positioning of the instrument and hands suit me better on my cello.
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I don't even know if it's really any easier to 'see' what the fingers & bow are doing while playing Viola or Violin, than on the Cello, but I definitely feel like a tortured contortionist playing these instruments on my shoulder! ...kids are SO MUCH more flexible. 😒
So WHAT is the advantage of playing on the shoulder (other than getting rid of the droopy skin that was hanging down on the left side of my neck)?
Some other Cultures play off the chest or on the lap - and maybe one of the advantages of playing 'nyckelharpa' is the comfortable way it's held to play.
Thought one of the Viola Pomposa designs was easier to play because the bout is lower on the right side & the rib is wider on the left side - making higher positions easier & giving a little built-in tilt(?)
I kinda blame the design of rigid shoulder rests & fiddle shape for making playing harder... maybe more luthiers should step up - redesign the fiddle & viola with this in mind! They might add a little rib height with a slight contour near the tail pin and that area of the back, to accommodate the shoulder, but still allow it to move!
What about changing the TEXTURE on the back of the violin? It doesn't HAVE to be so highly polished/slick.
I probably think about this stuff more, playing 5-strings... and I WANT SIX, but I want it comfortable to play!!!
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I have toyed with holding my violin lower like I have seen, but I sit while I play and I am not sure how well that would work, plus, I still would have that sense of insecurity of the instrument. I think the shoulder is needed for stability and less intrusion of the sound, maybe.
If I could have someone help me get the right set up with chinrest and shoulder rest, gave up not using a shoulder rest, it might not be so bad. Instructors, unlike what some people on other forums have said, do not go shopping with you to find a set up. Heck, here they don't even deal with it. I asked my first instructor and she said she does not help with that, it is up to me. The closest store will only deal with items they have, so, that is that. They have what I have already tried. They don't even suggest something else if they don't have any options that work.
Seriously the best chinrest I have found is the Fiddlerman Freedom(?). It is so soft feeling and smooth. Works for under chin and side. I do like the Fiddlerman shoulder rest, also, as well as the Kun. But neither work well for the distance I need, with the chinrest I love. The Mach whatever, nada, same with the other common ones we have all heard about. The photos show what looks like a nice curve over the shoulder, but they are deceiving photos. It is just a curvy top. I need to try adding a sponges on the chest end to see if it will give that end of the should rest the angle or height I am looking for, I really need to remember to do that.
I think all the design changes you mention will affect the sound, and not in a good way, but, what do I know about that? I don't make them or know the science around the affects os the shapes sound. I could very well be very wrong with that.
Love your thinking out of the box. This is an interesting forum topic post. It will be interesting to see what people have to say, either seriously or just way out there.
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Learn Violin and Fiddle
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I have learned a lot about comfort of playing since I started playing Maezarine, my 6-string fiddle.
Talked about what a HUGE difference the new 'flatter neck profile' on this violin has made for me, back in the Violin/Viola Neck Profile - How About Options? Thread. So much easier on my left hand!
Still think the closer/lower the fiddle sits on someone's shoulder, the less stress on BOTH arms/shoulders. I'm still feeling good about going without a shoulder rest since I added a piece of neoprene foam to the top of my chin rest (post #261, Emily's Journey Down The E/V Road! Blog).
Still a little slippery, though - which most folks have trouble with, even if wearing loose clothing. I've read that some people would rather have skin contact with the violin for this reason, but I'd rather find a fabric that will work. I believe my Maezarine is noticeably heavier than most wood violins... really think slipping wouldn't be as much of an issue with less weight.
If I was having any unresolvable pain issues while practicing/playing - I WOULD NOT HESITATE to learn to play my fiddle (or Viola) on my knee, like a cello (or any other way I could be comfortable). People play this way in several different Countries, because similarly (upright) bowed folk instruments have existed much earlier than violins.
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The main advantage of playing on the shoulder is probably that the bow hand can take advantage of gravity. Bouncing bow strokes are very dependent on it, and it's easier to dig into the string when the bow is on top of it. The head can also help keep the instrument in place when shifting or playing vibrato; a violin or viola held vertically isn't as steady as a cello.
I only personally know one person who plays without a shoulder rest, a violinist in my orchestra. What she uses to prevent slipping is a rectangular piece of non-adhesive shelf liner, which she drapes over her shoulder while playing.
If you use a shoulder rest, it's definitely worthwhile to try a few different shoulder rests, because they all feel different.
I've also found my viola much more comfortable to play after getting a custom-made chinrest, which turned out to be surprisingly affordable (total cost to me including fitting session, chinrest, and shipping was $183).
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idk.. i kind of feel like the shoulder rest..chin rest... came about to solve a problem and caught on in popularity for some reason
but...
I think its important for people to figure out what works for them and not listen always to the it must be this way or that.. unless you have a career in music and the boss says so.. then decisions have to be made.
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I do like the 'Performa' shoulder rest the best - and the wood version is lighter weight.
Not sure I'd be having any issues using a shoulder rest if I only had 4 strings - I just don't find any comfortable way to play 6-strings with my violin completely stationary.
Just seems (to me) that eventually our instrument and our bow need to be felt like it's part/or an extension of our body - which means freedom of movement.
There's also other factors that can contribute to the comfort of 'playing' our instruments.
One thing I haven't addressed... I've felt like I've been pinched by my chinrest bracket on the bottom of my fiddle, more times than I care to count. I hesitate to try to tighten it - might just need to stick a piece of felt on it, but haven't done anything yet since it's not a constant bother.
Another place to look at comfort is the bow.
I need a little beveled angle on the frog where my thumb rests against - or it just hurts after a while.
People should consider what style of music they play when choosing a bow for comfort. I found going over 60 grams to be VERY uncomfortable for anything off string.
I did solve tension in my bowing hand with a little thickening of the thumb pad (post#26, Bow Grip Thread), but there are products that can be purchased. When I relaxed, my thumb would slip thru - I'd tense up to prevent it (may only be an issue with thin fingers).
Even lower tension strings can be more comfortable to play.
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I resisted the use of a shoulder rest because I wanted to keep things simple -- no extra gear unless absolutely necessary. Also, the shoulder rest pretty much locks you into one position. Fiddlerman’s video about playing w/o a shoulder rests speaks to this.
Finding the correct chinrest took several attempts, but I finally found one (from Fiddlershop) that works well for my body. So I can play without pain or stress.
But, as noted above, the fiddle is slippery and it tends to slide around, especially with certain fabrics. People have tried various ways to minimize this with sponges, shelf liners, etc. I heard of one person using a piece of soft rough-out leather to provide a more grippy surface, but of course I did not want to add extra accessories. So I cut a small patch and attached it to the chinrest clamp. I’ve been using it for about a month and it does seem to help. And it stays on the fiddle, fits into the case without problem, and does not require any extra work or complication.
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I would strongly disagree that the shoulder rest locks you into one position. I move my viola around quite a bit with a shoulder rest. Different shoulder rests allow varying degrees of freedom. Mine is relatively low and has a gentle curve, which allows some movement.
I can't play without a shoulder rest because, in order to balance the viola without one, I would have to hold it flatter and would then have difficulty playing on the low strings with my short fingers. Many proponents of playing without a shoulder rest say that keeping the instrument flatter is one of the benefits, but for me it's the opposite. One of the main purposes of the shoulder rest is to produce the tilt that I need.
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A Bon Musica bent to fit your shoulder will feel as though it's locked in.
Old shoulder rests tended to be flatter pieces of padded wood (they looked like Victorian sofas in the 70s), so perhaps more mobile.
My teacher wants me to hold my violin more horizontally, so I'm back to questioning my shoulder and chinrest combo again. Although my shoulder rest is a Wolf Forte Secondo, so perhaps it could do with a re-bend.
As to materials to go over the shoulder/under the chin, I've just ordered some brushed cotton wincyette offcuts, blithely ignoring the fact that I've already got sponges and real and false chamois and cotton dusters and microfibre cloths and face flannels, lol. The problem with buying white handkerchiefs a la Perlman on Amazon is you'll get tissue-thin crap from China.
Andrew
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