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Tungsten Violin Bow Wrap
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 28, 2018 - 10:39 pm
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So it's made for beta and you are wanting to use alpha. the difference is daylight and dark. Beta is cut with These  molybdenumvanadiumniobiumtantalumzirconiummanganeseironchromiumcobaltnickel, and copper

Try using an argon/nitrogen gas mixture, think mig, nitrogen is an alpha stabilizer and lowers the melting point while the argon shields. You may have it laying around, if so use your standard mix, probably 5% nitrogen. If it doesn't work, go with the highest nitrogen mix you can find.

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 28, 2018 - 11:34 pm
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@Mark has a good idea with the CA glue, epoxy or something.

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Irv
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My back up plan is to solder the gold plated tungsten ribbon.  I also gave a goldSmith with a YAG laser some wrap samples to try.  But I have the spot welder now so I might as well see what it can do.  At worst, I just burn up a couple of wood pencils and learn something.  But boy, 6,200 F is a bitch.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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Safety first. getting burned at 2700 degrees is one thing. getting burned at 6200 is another. At 1500 to 2700, you know as soon as it hits you. At 6200 you don't feel it at first and when you do, it can take your breath and cause you to pass out. It's like it burns up the outer nerves and does all kinds of damage before you know your hurt.

But ice cubes explode, thats cool, but you take a chance on ruining your electrodes. 

Just saying

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Irv
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I spent the weekend looking at the physics of the welder and looking at Sunstone Welding videos on tungsten microwelding.  I am greatly encouraged.

Since my welder utilizes capacitor discharge, it is obviously DC.  The micro switch under the paddle initializes the charging cycle (the capacitor has a discharge resistor across the poles, so the charge will dissipate in a few seconds if not used).

It appears possible to weld tungsten wires together under an argon bath.  However, I think that an easier process looks like nickel brazing.  I think that I can place a thin ribbon of nickel along the stick on the side facing the hair, put a dab of brazing paste over it, and wrap the tungsten wire over the ribbon.  A shot or two of the spot welder should braze the ribbon to the tungsten without heating the wire enough to cause embrittlement.  I will still use argon to avoid color changing oxidation (which might be over kill due to paste).  

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 30, 2018 - 8:38 pm
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@Irv I got questions. lol

Is that going to be just argon or is it mixed?

How many amps are being let loose when you hit the switch?

When you try this, look and see how if it welded at contact or if it welded at length. I have never welded on this level, 28 gauge steel up to 12 inch military grade. If you want to fix your tank or your battleship is leaking, I can handle that. Got specs here somewhere.

My dad was into stuff like this. Wish he was here, he would talk you to death on how to do this, any welding for that matter. Mechanics. Telephones. He was cool like that. Guitar, bottle of Old Charter, and stories about how to fix just about anything. I miss the good old days. 

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Irv
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Hi Chicken.  

Straight argon.  They were using two types of systems.

The first was a capacitor discharge with various tip adapters.  They used a hand held 2” diameter copper disc for welding tungsten screen (neat) and a concentric circle with inner and outer copper electrodes with the argon flowing between them (even neater).  It looked like they used a self darkening welding face shield without the hood for viewer protection.  Do not know voltage or amps but very small spark.  Nothing like carbon rod welding, for sure.  No color change of surrounding metal to indicate high level of heat.

They were using nickel tubes to braze tungsten Rods to each other.  Did not seem to use any flux in process, but likely argon.  

For some applications of capacitor discharge, they used a tungsten rod for one electrode and a copper rod for the other.  They only used copper when discharge welding tungsten.

The other technique was using a hand held tig, but the tungsten tip was on a solenoid actuator so when the tip touched the object, the solenoid recoiled it to initiate the spark while keeping the tungsten tip from welding itself to the metal.  That is out of my price range.

I am going to place a call to them tomorrow.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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Patiently waiting. 

I would have been shocked by now.

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Gordon Shumway
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Irv said
I am assuming that the welder uses low voltage DC with a lot of current, 

As @chicken says, safety first.

I should probably leave you alone, on the grounds that you both know what you're doing, but I have to butt in, as, in case you don't know, low voltage, high current applications (e.g. 10V, 300A) present subtle dangers. You'll be wearing a face-mask, but I don't know if you'll be wearing gloves. If not, do NOT wear rings. Short one of those out with such a power supply, and you will lose the finger: I've read of people getting a face full of vaporised screwdriver too. However, I suspect that the resistor leading to a short-term charge of the capacitor is a safety feature that will prevent this type of thing happening unless you are really careless.

(I studied electrical engineering at university when I was 18, but that was a long time ago and I didn't graduate in it)

Andrew

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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Gordon Shumway said

Irv said
I am assuming that the welder uses low voltage DC with a lot of current, 

As @chicken says, safety first.

I should probably leave you alone, on the grounds that you both know what you're doing, but I have to butt in, as, in case you don't know, low voltage, high current applications (e.g. 10V, 300A) present subtle dangers. You'll be wearing a face-mask, but I don't know if you'll be wearing gloves. If not, do NOT wear rings. Short one of those out with such a power supply, and you will lose the finger: I've read of people getting a face full of vaporised screwdriver too. However, I suspect that the resistor leading to a short-term charge of the capacitor is a safety feature that will prevent this type of thing happening unless you are really careless.

(I studied electrical engineering at university when I was 18, but that was a long time ago and I didn't graduate in it)  

You're absolutely right @Gordon Shumway . .01 amp is enough to stop the heart if the discharge passes across it and I have seen people have their hands blown off welding heavy amps. One guy had a big whole blown out of his right buttocks. Volts are for playing, Amps are for killing. {amazing the signs you can see hanging in a welding shop.

Exactly what I was worried about in a spot welder designed for alpha tungsten. In order to reach 6000 degrees across 2 plains would take a near small explosion of electricity. This one is used for beta tungsten which melts closer to 2200- 2500 depending on the cut mix, could get it as low as 1221 depending on the amount of aluminum in the mix. The temperature really doesn't have to get that high to bond thin metal,just a good solid arc.

I do set a bad example as far as welding in shorts and tank tops but I was born with a disclaimer. After a while, pain doesn't hurt any more. When I work with people on technique I often use the same words my dad used on me, "Don't do as I do. Do as I say do." Again terrible example.

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Irv
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Just got done talking with Sunstone.  

They said there should not be a problem welding the tungsten wire to itself with a capacitor discharge welder, but they need to dial in parameters to prevent imbrittlement since bow will be in daily use for a number of years.  Sending me sample request form (tungsten wrap on pencil).  Liked placing nickel ribbon layer under tungsten (sending a sample of that as well).  Said stainless steel ribbon would also work.  I asked about putting a dab of brazing paste between nickel and tungsten.  He said not to, since metals are welded and not brazed.

I was wrong on what I thought was a tig set up with the retracting solenoid.  He said that it was a capacitor discharge system as well.  

He said that what I want to do is on the upper end of their capabilities.  They frequent deal in micro amps.  The flash is so small that a conventional auto darkening welding eye shield generally will not trigger, so they signal it through a blue tooth connection with the welding machine.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Gordon Shumway
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Irv said
The flash is so small... 

I did wonder how small a micro-weld it would be.

How are silver windings finished off?

Andrew

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Irv
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Hi Gordon and others.  Solder is used to secure the ends of most silver wire wraps.  My new German pernambuco bow uses 0.2 mm diameter silver wire (thinner than the usual), and obviously used a string loop to tuck the ends under the wrap.  Looks nice but I have seen several used ones with loose wrapping.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Irv
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December 31, 2018 - 2:23 pm
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Hi Gordon and others.  Another thought.  Nickel ribbon is often used to weld the ends of lithium batteries to make wiring connections.  The weld divots are approximately 1/8 inch diameter.  I suspect that the tungsten wrapping weld will have a similar dimension.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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You're into metals way smaller than I have ever had to deal with outside of  electronics. That was just soldering. I bet this would be perfect for making jewelry. Just another interest I have. 

If I am understanding correctly, the micro burst or weld would be so small as to not damage the wood whatsoever. That is awesome.

I am learning from what you are reporting Irv. Thanks. Keep it up.

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Irv
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Yes, Chicken.  They said that they routinely hold objects in their fingers so scorching wood was not an issue.  The ground wire is like a banana lead from a multimeter.  They said the flash is similar to looking at the sparks from an old electric train set and is not painful, but cautioned that a life time exposure would not do your eyes any good. One of their systems incorporates a binocular microscope.  

Their videos show them welding tungsten wire thinner than a human hair between stainless steel posts and onto tiny screws.  

Sunstone also makes a YAG laser welder but he said that capacitor discharge is perfect for my needs.  I now wonder if I should buy a smaller capacitor (although I seem to have a lot of adjustment available in the one I have).

He said that micro tig units have been around for 50 years, but never worked well.  The trick for most work is the tungsten rod incorporated with a capacitor discharge welder.  He said that I needed to apply a little pressure for my application, so the copper electrodes are the way to go.

A guy assembled all of the fittings on a set of titanium eye glasses without fixtures in about 3 minutes in one of their videos.  Also used on jewelry and for welding thermocouples.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Irv
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I so want the copper roller used to weld wire mesh.  I timed out the spark interval as it rolled, and I could perfectly mimic it with the dial a welder.  I could do that all day (if only I could find a client).4648AC6A-6856-4D35-BCC6-8F6A957A783A.jpegImage Enlarger

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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Irv said
I so want the copper roller used to weld wire mesh.  I timed out the spark interval as it rolled, and I could perfectly mimic it with the dial a welder.  I could do that all day (if only I could find a client).

This is the age of free samples. Build you up a supply of bows and start giving them away for reviews. How many people are selling Custom bamboo bows? Can't be to many as anal as you are for detail. Advertise that you are making the finest bamboo bows on the market, call it the "BAMBOW, the most powerful bamboo bow on the market."(prove it's not), custom made, signed by the designer, includes letter of authenticity. GUARANTEED to come out of the box. Genuine BLACK Mongolian Horse Hair.(because everybody and his brother are using white horse hair)( or dye it different colors). 

There will always be a market for different. everyone has a pernumbuco, brazilwood, cf, krusty krab bow, not that many ornate, steel tipped, tungsten wrapped, neon blue with bright pink horse hair bambows floating around.

The world is your oyster, take the pearl. It's your planet, we are just standing on it. Allow yourself to have your dream and be willing to step on anyone that tries to stop you. I have faith in you and I believe you can do this.

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Irv
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Well Chicken, certainly gifts but no free samples.  Been down that road to disappointment.  

Made up a couple of tungsten wrapped pencils with a nickel ribbon underlayer (see photo).  Encouraged that ribbon was so thin that could not see outline under wrap.  

Interesting thread on Cocker bamboo bows on another forum.  Member stated that he had such a bow and it performed the best that he ever played.  Traded it for an inferior bow that had a more conventional appearance.  What more can be said.1C1424F5-75DD-407E-B4C3-E4D3598E96D8.jpegImage Enlarger

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

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steveduf
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Irv

Do you know of a good source of silver wire?

that is more up my alley.

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