FORUM

Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Please feel free to share. “Amazing Grace”

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Tungsten Violin Bow Wrap
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 2, 2019 - 9:51 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
81sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Yes, but I have to remember what I did with it.  Give me a day to find it.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 2, 2019 - 10:15 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
82sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@@steveduf.  I have not purchased through them, but they were recommended to me.  Try Rio Grande Jewelry Supply 0.999 fine silver wire (6 through 32 gauge).

A bow that I really like uses 0.2 mm silver wire and it looks like they pull ends of wire under wrap with a string.  Generally, the ends are soldered.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 3, 2019 - 1:06 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The YAG laser lady called me to say that she has given up trying to weld tungsten.  

Came up with another idea.  If the front of the bow is going to be metal, why not use a nylon Teyco like strain relief to hold the bow hair knot?  BC63493B-CB9B-4E4A-98EE-A54930284F39.jpegImage Enlarger

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 3, 2019 - 4:04 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15067
84sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I have nothing to add to this interesting thread but as far as I can tell, there may definitely be a market for custom bows, wrapping, and accessories. I don't know of anyone who is doing this. Marketing would be the tough part.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Shane "Chicken" Wang
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 12:30 am
Member Since: October 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 291
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
85sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Fiddlerman If we only knew someone that owned a fiddlershop.........

Do they have expo's for stuff like this? Even Jan Larsen started somewhere with a small dream.

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 2:53 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1074
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hmmm...

If I had to predict the future (possibly in a way that only a violinist with @Fiddlerman's experience could comment), what about altering weight distribution and reducing frog weight? I get the impression that the frog may only be necessary for the current weight distribution. What if it could be reduced to zero and the carbon's weight distribution profile be engineered instead? This would require a completely different hair-tightening mechanism, e.g. a small hinge and a carbon lever to open it out, thus creating pull.

How would you like a bow that weighed 30g, 20g? I'd understand if you'd hate it. I suppose you have to balance hand-applied pressure and the effortless pressure from the bow's weight. No bow weight might, counter-intuitively, cause too much RH fatigue.

Or maybe double-bass rosin would solve that problem? dunno (lol)

Andrew

Avatar
Shane "Chicken" Wang
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 9:37 am
Member Since: October 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 291
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
87sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Gordon Shumway said
Hmmm...

If I had to predict the future (possibly in a way that only a violinist with @Fiddlerman's experience could comment), what about altering weight distribution and reducing frog weight? I get the impression that the frog may only be necessary for the current weight distribution. What if it could be reduced to zero and the carbon's weight distribution profile be engineered instead? This would require a completely different hair-tightening mechanism, e.g. a small hinge and a carbon lever to open it out, thus creating pull.

How would you like a bow that weighed 30g, 20g? I'd understand if you'd hate it. I suppose you have to balance hand-applied pressure and the effortless pressure from the bow's weight. No bow weight might, counter-intuitively, cause too much RH fatigue.

Or maybe double-bass rosin would solve that problem? dunno (lol)  

When I changed from a wooden bow to Fiddlerman's Carbon fiber bow, the weight was the same but the balance was shifted 4 inches towards the frog. I changed to a dark rosin and added pressure to compensate. I wouldn't want anything that felt lighter than what I am working with now.

For a bow hair adjuster, each time you tighten the frog, you tighten to a different extent. You compensate for humidity and personal preference. I live close to a major river in the US and somedays my bow hair is tight before i turn the screw and others it flops around on the stick. I think this effect caused a wooden bow to warp. I really liked that bow.

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 10:09 am
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
88sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Well, I have filled a 2 inch binder with information so far on this stuff.

I like the research that Vuillaume did on the Francois Xavier Tourte (1750-1835) bows and plan to base my tapers on their work.  Why this is not commonly done in the trade is beyond me.  Particularly in the cf bows that are made in a mold.

Corker made use of technology involved in making bamboo fly rods.  I only wrinkle that I will add is to wrap the bamboo strips while in the conventional heat treating process for double bonding (roasting).  The Corker technique could also be used with a variety of wood species.

A metal or cf bow head will eliminate inherent wood grain weakness.

The major problem with the frog is in the mortise wear caused by long term use.

The Heddon steel bow was originally quite light.  I recently purchased a later example of a more normal weight, so I don’t think there was much of a market for light weight bows.  These are very interesting bows that do not cost much to try.

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 10:36 am
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 683
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
89sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Irv, I got curious about your choice of bamboo (à la Corker) so I looked up the properties of bamboo compared to brazilwood. Yeah, I realize there are many types and qualities of each.

In case anyone else is curious:
https://www.wood-database.com/.....razilwood/
https://www.wood-database.com/bamboo/

If I read the info correctly, generic brazilwood is about twice as dense and twice as hard as bamboo (but similarly elastic.) Is part of your idea of roasting the bamboo to get it to approach the hardness and density qualities of brazilwood?

As for me, the only thing I roast in chicken (not you, "Chicken")

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 11:06 am
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
90sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Modulus

The key comparison is the elastic modulus numbers.  They are very similar.  Bamboo is stronger per unit weight.  Unshown in your chart is that bamboo is further strengthened by heat treatment (by about 1/3).  I think that this will be enhanced to an unknown degree by oxygen exclusion during heat treatment (which will substitute double bonds in the lignin).

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 12:22 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 683
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
91sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks, Irv. It's fun to try and think along with the musings of you scientists, engineers and inventors.

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 1:38 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In the hope that others may want to try a tungsten wrap, I am adding a photo of some of the accessories for the dial a weld.F0E6F675-CB19-49B8-AE6A-5AF981D354A4.jpegImage Enlarger878F7ACE-8420-48DC-91CA-538700B98D8C.jpegImage Enlarger

Man has no special rights because he belongs to a particular race.  The soul emanates equal and eternal from bodies different in shape and color.  It is sufficient to say ‘Man’ to comprehend therein all rights.                                                    — Jose Marti 

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Avatar
Shane "Chicken" Wang
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 3:07 pm
Member Since: October 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 291
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
93sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@bocaholly Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. A-musing is all I'm  good for these days. I just had a piece of steel pulled out of my eye and I wasn't even working on anything. Just walking down a sidewalk and it fell out of the sky. Seriously, stuck me just above the pupil. Doctor said, "Wow, You are lucky!" If I was so lucky it would have hit the guy that left it there and not me. Further convinced I am cursed. 

Just a sliver of metal but big enough to really mess up my plans for a bit. Guess I need to start wearing a helmet and pads when I leave the house.

In past dealings with bamboo, it is often used to imitate the density of bone, for those that practice cutting bone with a sword. It is still used as a major building implement in much of china. I think a bamboo bow would last a person a lifetime and has been under utilized in western culture. The speed at which bamboo can grow is phenomenal. I used to have a small field of bamboo in my little swamp of a back yard and sold it off as fishing poles. Built chicken coops out of it, duck blinds, deer blinds, I love it.

When Irv gets this all figured out, I will be one of first customers. Guaranteed.

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
January 4, 2019 - 3:32 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 683
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Holy moly, Chicken! Sounds like your eye is going to be OK but that is one scary happening (and you've said you've been through many!) Are you wearing a patch on your eye for a while or just bandaged up above it? 

Bamboo... yes, very cool stuff. Looks nice ... then multiplies and looks beautiful... until it proliferates to the point where all there is is bamboo growing outside your back window (tried that as you might guess 🙂 Love your idea of building stuff with it... be it chicken coops or Irv's bows. So many pics of amazing bamboo architecture online... this one must have been made out of ginormous shoots: