Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
(7 votes) 
Regulars
Offline
Emily if you havent heard of Playfords dancing master you will have a field day with this list of hundreds of pieces of music. Its all old English tunes, jigs dances. Some odd time signatures like 2/2 6/4. I would hope others will be just as interested in this list, this is were the tune I posted driving the cold winter away originated.
In those times the actual dance pattern was more important than the tune itself, anyway take a look at this, and great thanks to those who put it together.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy -
🤔... hey, didn't I give 'you' that link a while back? 🤭
THANK YOU! I'm SO HAPPY you are interested in these tunes with me!!!
Besides Playford, I found a couple other major figures in English Country Dance Music...
Improvements in the printing industry at the end of the 1600's made printing music more profitable... enter John Walsh - a publisher who took advantage of Playford's decline. There's more good tunes - check out the 'John Walsh' publication at IMSLP (Book 1 & 2, The Compleat Country Dancing-Master). I haven't had a chance to look thru them much & suspect I've been playing a few.
Cecil Sharp was a collector of English Folk songs, but MUCH MORE! He was key to Folk song revival in England - especially Morris & co-founded the 'English Country Dance Society' (later including folk songs)! There are Volumes to check out on IMSLP, but check out 'The Society' has cool stuff happening at The Cecil Sharp House and some great Learning Resources (scroll down the whole page)!
LOVE the bouncy tunes - and can't pass up the many minor ones! Love that some are Morris tunes! ...some tunes have pretty macabre lyrics. 😶
Most of the Playford tunes I have learned - I recorded way back for the 2022 Christmas Party (ALL minor tunes 😏). 'Drive The Cold Winter Away', 'Lumps of Pudding' & 'Twelfth Eve' (pg 8/post#148). 'Cold & Raw' and 'Christmas Cheer' (pg 11/post#214). I don't expect anyone to remember, but I still enjoy playing them - as well as 'Parson's Farewell', 'Down Among The Dead Men' & 'Bobbing Joe'. I got real excited about 'Jack of The Green', but then went down a rabbit hole of possibilities influenced by Jethro Tull!
Think next on my list will be 'Red House' & 'Bishop of Bangor's Jig', but it's 🎄 tune time. ...maybe it'll be the 'Bishop's Red House Lit With Bangor's Christmas Lights'!
Love not only English Country Dance tunes, but also the bawdy ballads, broadsides & many other English Folk tunes! Glad that English Country Dancing made it to the Colonies (and throughout Europe) - happy the tradition continues here in Contre Dance!
The Colonial Society of Massachusetts has some fabulous info on Colonial American Country Dance & the English sources/influence! I happened upon this, but see there's much more to explore.
MUSIC IN COLONIAL MASSACHUSETTS 1630–1820 (there's a Foreward & Introduction that preceeds this page)
Military Music of Colonial Boston
Songs to Cultivate the Sensations of Freedom
Broadsides and Their Music in Colonial America
COMMENTARY ON THE TUNES (very interesting)
Regulars
Offline
Ho,ho,ho, as father xmas would say, I had completely forgotten about you giving me a link, mind you its good for xmas, its like pass the parcel.
Good to see you post, I was getting a bit concerned because you hadnt been on for a few days.
That bishop one i have looked at, thought of doing that one, but just did nonesuch instead, posted it here and took it back down after a few hours because as usual wasnt happy with it. Maybe I will replace drive the cold winter with that one instead, it is as you know linked to xmas because of the winter dances that went on at nonesuch palace
I am amazed as well that I dont remember you doing drive the cold winter, wouldnt have done that one if I had remebered, possibly you had put the thought in m mind, as I say may replace it .
With all the stuff in playfords its sort of taking over for me from the irish stuff,like you say the melodies are great, I also like the dancing, quite often at some of the old halls near where I live they have re enacters in full dress and musicians and they perfom the dances, by the way didnt know bobbing joe was in there either.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy -
I am amazed as well that I dont remember you doing drive the cold winter, wouldnt have done that one if I had remebered, possibly you had put the thought in m mind, as I say may replace it .
PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT DOWN!!!
I WANT to see folks are interested in the SAME music I am!!! AND, I hope folks take my kindred spirit to heart if I play my version of a tune someone else has shared (I've done that at least to ABitRusty & Jim Dunleavy 🤭)!
Been crazy with some major extended 'Black Friday' sale shopping (included a ton of research). I just wanna change my strings now & relax.
...I missed you played another Playford tune? 🤨 Put it back!
The only thing I don't like about most of the Old English Tune Archives - no midi. There are exceptions, but sometimes that's not enough. When it comes to Genres & specific tune Styles, I'd much rather hear how musicians (more knowledgeable than I) interpret playing them. I want to HEAR a tune played before I decide to learn it - even if I decide to play differently.
Needless to say, I have a bunch of Playlists bookmarked (will have to find them). LOVE anything YOU have to share!
Regulars
Offline
I agree completely about the midis. I also have to hear a tune, I am hopeles at getting the rythm otherwise.
I can read music and know were the notes are on the fingerboard without even thinking now, but its not much use if I play them all out of time so I just have to listen which is a hard job finding versions of the playford ones, thing is though, and I am sure you agree, even finding a tune doest mean it sounds how it was originally intended, so I suppose there is some lee way:)
I have to get the shopping now, but I will plonk nonesuch on again later for you to have a listen, make sure you have your ear plugs handy though
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
Was getting after myself (yesterday), for not having played a 'Maggot'! I've tried to start looking into how the Playford dances relate to the tunes, because it's obviously important, but I'm going to have to do a little at a time.
I still can't quite wipe the 'ick' factor from my memory (as a teenage Veterinary Assistant, worked on an old dog with lively maggots)... but Music Maggots are GREAT TUNES of whim, fancy & obsession! Playford has a bunch of them. I checked out some ECD sites... there is NO specific dance for a Maggot, and NO specific 'type' of tune for a Maggot - but I've seen dances with 'Maggot' in their title danced to tunes with completely different names. You can find Maggots that are three-twos, jigs, slip jigs, hornpipes, reel & barndances!
Musical use of the word Magot, or Maggot.
...the term [(spelling)] "magot" appears in titles only from the 1695 edition [Playford's Dancing Master], and is spelled "maggot" in later editions.
I do like minor tunes in simple, or compound, triple meter - Mr. Beveridge's Maggot was a great one to start working on!
Nice arrangement from Bertrand Lamoureux, performed here by Bruno Gilbert-Samson, Florence Boyer-Gignac & Sophie Lemieux .
It gets a little weird for me to think of a 'Three-Two' as a 'Triple Hornpipe', but seems to be a term more common in Northumberland/Lowland Scotland - AND more syncopated! So, now I'm REALLY EXCITED about starting to get The Hare's Maggot memorized.
Stewart Hardy plays a GREAT Hare's Maggot! Check out his 'Tune Vault' Playlist!
There's a modern era 'Midwinter Maggot' composed by Jonathan Jensen, I want to learn - haven't found any clean audio or notation, but heard just enough to get interested.
Like Switched On Bach? Check out The Hare's Maggot - Switched On Playford!
Regulars
Offline
I love the tone of his violin in the first vid, and the arranging as well.
Havent tried any of these 'maggots', I have been doing the cobblers hornpipe just lately, as well as working on the other playford ones that I have memorised up to now.
Been doing a bit of cross tuning as well just lately, mainly for a bit of a change.
There is a lifetimes work going through all the playford tunes, his collecting skill was phenomenal, especially since he travelled around to collect tunes which in those days must have been really difficult, music owes him a great debt.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy -
Cobbler's Hornpipe - that's GREAT (I like it, too)!
Looks like we are on the same track ('Maggot' is just a name)! 🤗
I do believe these old 3/2 hornpipes (and other Playford tunes) were meant to be repeated with variations, but I've had a hard time finding good examples. I don't necessarily want to learn the variations right away, but like to know there's at least something I can follow & work on later (cause I'm too lazy right now to come up with my own). 🥴
I've kept my eye on The Good Tune's 3/2 Hornpipe Video Playlist (and they do play Cobbler's), but have you heard Terry McKenna's? He has some variations on 'Cobbler's Hornpipe' worth considering.
Regulars
Offline
That is briliant playing, seriously, I absolutely love it, the violin is excellent, it really conjures up the image of people dancing at somewhere like Hampton court. Its very atmospheric and drags you in.
I have lost the will at the moment to play Irish jigs and reels and the like after hearing some of this music.
In summer, about 60 miles from where I live there is a hall called little morton its in the county of cheshire, but close to shropshire. Its half timbered black and white I have been there many times and in summer they have traditional musicians playing, who use baroque instruments, and wear trad dress, and play this kind of thing you would love it its wonderful. My friend who is a luthier goes their often, he recently made a Hurdy gurdy, for his own pleasure, and one of the musicians who plays there uses one.
Have a look at the building on the internet, its around 6 or 7 hundred years old.
Cant beat a sunny day
Regulars
Offline
@stringy -
Have you looked for Playford/ECD/English Music Sessions in your area? Somebody has to know of some, what about your Luthier friend?
Little Moreton Hall - omg! The patterns... EVERYWHERE!
The stained glass in the Little Moreton Hall Chapel is very impressive, but the patterns of the other leaded windows started to get to me - still amazing.
How in the heck did they work on the outside of those upper levels? ...reminds me of an upside-down Xmas tree (that's one heck of a foundation).
...hilarious, except I'm sure he probably narrowly escaped death installing them!
Regulars
Offline
These Playford tunes in minor & minor modes are like putting a log on the fire... gets me fired up to try them out on the fiddle!
Just starting to enjoy what little snow we've been getting, but The Mulberry Garden is soooo inviting! The link is notation on The Session, but first caught my eye handwritten in The Glen Collection (The Mulberry Garden) - a special collection of Playford tunes & Strathspeys in the National Library of Scotland!
The Mulberry Garden - performed by the Baltimore Consort.
Think these tunes would benefit from trying a Baroque bow! More on the Baroque Bow & Bowing Thread
💖 ...Playford tunes are simple melodies begging for whims and fancy!
Regulars
Offline
Spent time tonight playing some of the tunes in the previous posts - 'The Mulberry Garden', 'Bobbing Joe', 'Cobbler's', 'Jacky Tar', 'Mr. Beveridge's' & 'The Hare's Maggot', 'Lumps of Pudding', all just the basic melodies. Then, got even more interested listening to 2 of Chris Green's albums, where I happened upon some new tunes (to me) in his unique manner.
Switched-On Playford Album Playlist
Switched-On Playford II Album Playlist
There were a couple of 'Three-Twos' (3/2) I found interesting! Here's notation links & other examples of those tunes.
Mrs. Savage's Whim (3/2) - played by Footcraft Music and Dance.
Barham Down (3/2) - played by Laurel Swift at a workshop.
Blackheath caught my ear (it's in cut time). There's other video examples, but I had to share at least one of Chris Green's tracks!
Laurel Swift does workshops, lessons and plays quite a few other Playford & Morris Dance tunes!
Regulars
Offline
Just noticed there is notation for 'Parson's Farewell' (aka Bourree) on The Session.
The structure is ABB, though - not AABB.
I learned it fairly early on from this Duncan Cameron tutorial - and I still love it.
Very cool 'call & response', along with some really nice variations in this recording by Tarleton's Jig.
This tune was well known (early 1600's) by quite a few different names, before it became a Playford tune - info on the Traditional Tune Archive (Parson's Farewell).
Regulars
Offline
The new tune I chose to work on today was this Playford one - Mall (Moll) Peatly (aka. 'Old Marinett')!
Mall Peatly - played by Laurel Swift at a workshop.
To me, this is one of those tunes that sounds MUCH better voiced lower!
Regulars
Offline
I'm still playing some of these tunes, Morris dance tunes (Morris Music Thread) & also some in the Burns Supper - Scottish Fiddle Music Thread - feeling a connection between them, maybe a 'spill-over' of Burns into Northumbrian music, where a lot of the ECD music I like comes from.
I do LOVE the feeling that some of this music is even earlier than Baroque, but for some reason I'm having trouble remembering the ones I learn without hearing an intro!
I'm managing, but jeez... I play a tune long enough to get it up to speed, then STILL have to play it more just so when I say the name I hear the tune in my head!
😞... haven't even started adding any variations (other than playing in another octave, or another key), yet.
Going to try to keep them fresh while I move on to make my rounds in another genre for a while... variation work will have to wait a bit.
Regulars
Offline
Got caught down another rabbit hole, all because I thought this was pretty interesting...
It says in the video description, "English Country Dances - 17th Century Music from the Publications of John Playford"... but WHAT publication?
I believe it's from Playford's 'Division Violin' (1685) - not sure if this is just part of it (https://archive.org/details/bi.....1/mode/2up).
Wikipedia says:
The Division Violin (1685) - a set of 26 tunes which start simply and build complex variations ("divisions") on the original melody. While many of the pieces were accessible to amateurs, several featured advanced techniques (for the time) like scordatura, fingered double stops, and large interval leaps across the strings.
I have read this was the first music of it's kind made public - but, to me, Playford was just keeping up with what Baroque musicians were doing, the style of the day.
There are supposedly like 40 variations of an old tune, 'John Anderson My Jo' (which is a GREAT LITTLE TUNE)! There's a bunch of info & notation to some amazing settings at The Traditional Tune Archive and a setting to play-along with at The Session (with some different info). Why mention this? Because Paul's Steeple, or The Duke of Norfolk is ONE of these variants!!!
Quite a few folks wrote lyrics to 'John Anderson My Jo', over time... including Robert Burns (link to his lyrics and notation - #212)!
Another variant/closely related tune I love is Crúiscín Lán (aka, 'Cruiskeen Lawn'), and even Turlough O'Carolan's O'Reilly of Athcarne! There's a different version (maybe a little odd) of Paul's Steeple in the Montreal Tunebook, too!
So, did John Playford manage to bridge a unique link between ECD music & Baroque listening music?
...the Division Violin stuff was a bit much for me today, but I did play the other tunes I talked about here!
1 Guest(s)
Mouse
Fiddlerman
ELCBK
