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Multiple Fingered Douple Stop Help
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Irv
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January 27, 2019 - 11:05 am
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I have got up to the third book in the Muller Rusch String method for violin, learning as I go without an instructor.  Things were going well until lesson #321 which looks to require multiple fingered double stops (see below).  The first note in the first measure is an f (on the d string) over a c (on the g string).  

My first thought on fingering involves the use of my second finger on the f and my third finger on the c.  But I also think that it would be possible to use my second finger on the f and my thumb for the c, but I have never done that before and it would seem a special case since I do not think that I could project my thumb beyond the g string.  I would rather not use my second finger on the c and the third finger on the f since finger memory on this technique would be drastic.

Suggestions are welcomed.0FDFE7BC-CE41-46F0-8E9C-E18FF207EC41.jpegImage Enlarger

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Fiddlerman
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January 27, 2019 - 11:12 am
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Is the only issue you have with this exercise the first note(s)?

I suggest that you simply use the 2nd finger on the F and the 3rd finger on the G-string C. I would imagine that using the thumb would create more difficulty. Also, I'm surprised that the next double stop is not more of an issue for you. 🙂
Switching the 3rd finger to the D-string for the G and using the 4th finger on the G-string for the D is perhaps more challenging.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Irv
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January 27, 2019 - 11:17 am
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My assumption that the technique offered on the first note could be generally used on the rest.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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January 27, 2019 - 11:27 am
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Fiddlerman said
I suggest that you simply use the 2nd finger on the F and the 3rd finger on the G-string C.  

Then do you slide to 2nd position and then back down to 1st?

Andrew

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Fiddlerman
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January 27, 2019 - 12:01 pm
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I would stay in first position.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Gordon Shumway
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Fiddlerman said
I would stay in first position.  

Oh dear! I'm OK with transferring a finger from one string to another on a guitar, but it's much harder on the violin!

Andrew

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Irv
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January 27, 2019 - 12:04 pm
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That’s good.  No clue what a second position is.  I have some idea, but no experience in achieving, third position (which will come later in this book).

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Irv
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January 27, 2019 - 12:08 pm
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I think that this week I may change the string spacing on the bridge to approximate that found on Maxim’s video elsewhere on the forum.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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January 27, 2019 - 12:10 pm
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Irv said
That’s good.  No clue what a second position is.  I have some idea, but no experience in achieving, third position (which will come later in this book).  

On the D string, 1st position is when your first finger is on the E; 2nd position is when your first finger is on the F; and 3rd position is when your first finger is on the G.

Andrew

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Irv
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February 1, 2019 - 10:52 am
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Another question.  On the fifth and sixth bar, the d String has a fingered f and the a string has a fingered c.  I am currently using my second finger on the f and the third finger on the c.  This is compromising the intonation of both strings.  It would be easier to “bar” both strings using my second finger, and would have better intonation.  Is this acceptable technique?  I have shown the exercise a second time to eliminate the need for scrolling up the thread.  Thanks again.FE7BD086-B82F-4763-84C7-64890F49460F.jpegImage Enlarger

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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AndrewH
Sacramento, California
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Irv said
Another question.  On the fifth and sixth bar, the d String has a fingered f and the a string has a fingered c.  I am currently using my second finger on the f and the third finger on the c.  This is compromising the intonation of both strings.  It would be easier to “bar” both strings using my second finger, and would have better intonation.  Is this acceptable technique?  I have shown the exercise a second time to eliminate the need for scrolling up the thread.  Thanks again.FE7BD086-B82F-4763-84C7-64890F49460F.jpegImage Enlarger  

Depends on what you mean by "bar."

If you mean using the edge of your finger across the fingerboard, guitar style, then it is not commonly accepted technique because it requires pulling your left hand out of its hand frame.

If you mean placing the center of your fingertip between the strings so that you stop both, that's how violinists generally play a perfect 5th double-stop.

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Irv
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February 1, 2019 - 11:12 am
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Thank you @AndrewH.  I was thinking of the finger pad method, but did not relate it in my message.  General Grant had a staff Officer with the single assignment of devising means by which an order could be misconstrued.  The order was revised until he failed.  Fortunately, my mistake did not endanger troops or mission.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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February 1, 2019 - 11:22 am
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bar = measure.

I'm used to barring two strings with a finger pad, as this happened in the first piece I ever played, a simple Bartok children's piece. I have a Haydn piece that requires the note sequence B,E,A on strings 2,3,4. I feel that I should be barring strings 2 and 3 then jumping to string 4 for the A, but I need to show it to my teacher.

However, a week or two ago I came across a piece, I forget which, that seemed to require barring with the pinky, and I'm a lot less happy with that idea.

But recently I've decided to abandon Suzuki, as it doesn't merge well with the ABRSM pathway, and I probably saw it in there.

Andrew

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cid
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February 1, 2019 - 1:39 pm
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Love to help you there, @Gordon Shumway, ALF, but I need to google double stops. I keep hearing the term, but have never heard it mentioned in a lesson. If it what I gathered from reading bits and pieces in this thread, I am about to pull my hair out. Won’t be a pretty site! Wonder if it will make good bow hair? facepalm They sound like bar chords. They were the wall I hit when I tried guitar!

By the way, glad to see ALF was not completely cancelled! 

I hope you get it figured out. Hope I didn’t just ruin your thread, trying to remove my stress I just got from hearing about these double stops, again.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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Hello @cid and others.  I have not found double stops to be that big of a deal.  Slightly different angle of the bow.  

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
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February 2, 2019 - 11:27 am
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No holding a bar of strings down at the same time with one finger? Might be doable. 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Fiddlerman
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February 10, 2019 - 9:02 pm
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I would play both the F and the C with the second finger. Sometimes we must adjust the position of that finger to fix intonation. Just a little to the left or to the right will change the intonation of both notes since your finger is round. Sometimes you need to use the edge of a finger. Place your second finger on both strings and move it slowly until you feel that the interval is in tune.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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cid
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February 10, 2019 - 9:07 pm
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Good tips.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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