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Need some help - Inisheer and Triplets
New stuff not currently being taught in my Suzuki tutorial
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (4 votes) 
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RDP
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January 2, 2022 - 4:07 pm
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Ok, I'm still being bad and doing other stuff besides practicing just the current Suzuki lesson 40 hrs a day.  By slacking off my practicing to only 39 hours per day I found out I like Celtic Slow Airs.

 

One of the songs I like is Inisheer so I started trying to learn it.  It's more advanced than where I am right now so, to me, it's complicated in spots.  One of those spots in in bar 7.  The triplet is giving me fits.  Are the triplets played as one bow stroke with a reverse for the next G?

 

I've watched a ton of videos and I still can't figure it out.

 

Right now I'm only working on the first 1 1/2 lines.  I'm quite sure there's more stuff I'm not ready for in store for me later in the score but for now, that's where I am.

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ABitRusty
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January 2, 2022 - 5:00 pm
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you can do them either way.  i think it may sound better doing individual.   try and set yourself up to be down bow on the 1st note of the triplett.  relax and pull them from the wrist not with the whole arm.  i like being more toward end of bow than toward frog.

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stringy
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January 2, 2022 - 5:23 pm
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I cant see on the shèet music what you mean, do you mean where it goes from a to g to f sharp, if so and you want a roll you would play the g with the third finger and very quickly play the a then lift the finger from the g play the f sharp and back to g, the g to the a are essentially a hammer as on guitar, the whole bow stroke would be a slur, thats how I would play it anyway. Have a look at the first ten or so notes of my captain o kane to see what I mean, thats if I got your question correct.

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ABitRusty
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January 2, 2022 - 5:47 pm
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@RDP have you seen this one?  she covers both approaches..the more straight up melody toward end or second half.  try and get tune in your head where you can hum it...then get a general layout of where the notes are..then try and llay along with her...or your favorite version.  dont forget about youtubes slow down feature.  on a computer there is a custom selection that gives you more granular control over playback speed.  i havent found that on mobile version.  its in.25 increments.

there isnt a sheet music link you provided so the exact version your working off of is hidden but its a pretty common tune.  most seem about the same except for how people present ornaments and stuff.

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RDP
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January 3, 2022 - 11:20 am
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stringy said
I cant see on the shèet music what you mean, do you mean where it goes from a to g to f sharp, if so and you want a roll you would play the g with the third finger and very quickly play the a then lift the finger from the g play the f sharp and back to g, the g to the a are essentially a hammer as on guitar, the whole bow stroke would be a slur, thats how I would play it anyway. Have a look at the first ten or so notes of my captain o kane to see what I mean, thats if I got your question correct.

  

Well, there's part of the problem, I read the music wrong.  I thought it was an E instead of an F.  Ooops!  Noobie fail on my part.  Which also fits with one of the video tutorials saying that it's played with the 2nd and 3rd fingers except for one point on the E string later on.

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RDP
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January 3, 2022 - 11:34 am
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ABitRusty said
@RDP have you seen this one?  she covers both approaches..the more straight up melody toward end or second half.  try and get tune in your head where you can hum it...then get a general layout of where the notes are..then try and llay along with her...or your favorite version.  dont forget about youtubes slow down feature.  on a computer there is a custom selection that gives you more granular control over playback speed.  i havent found that on mobile version.  its in.25 increments.

there isnt a sheet music link you provided so the exact version your working off of is hidden but its a pretty common tune.  most seem about the same except for how people present ornaments and stuff.

  

Sorry about that.  Here's a linky with a PDF download:

https://www.celticscores.com/s.....6_Inisheer

The PDF is a very basic version and I've seen other scores where the first D is an upbow then the B is a downbow.  That's not annotated on the linky copy but it's how I'm playing it.

Most of the techniques that are used are ones that I'm familiar with except the triplet in bar 7.  The D string is throwing me off a bit because I've not played on it yet, but that's just a string change/elbow position thing.

 

I like where you said to "try and get the melody in my head"  *Snort!*  I can't get it OUT of my head.

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ELCBK
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January 3, 2022 - 1:49 pm
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@RDP - 

Do you know the timing value of all the notes, or do you need help with that? 

Otherwise, you play the group of three very quickly - hang on the 3rd a little longer. 

I didn't see an mp3 you could listen to - have you found this version played by anyone on YouTube? 

You can see & here versions of 'Inisheer', how the triplet sounds, at The Session. 

https://thesession.org/tunes/211

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ABitRusty
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January 3, 2022 - 1:53 pm
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"..I like where you said to "try and get the melody in my head"  *Snort!*  I can't get it OUT of my head."

good!  didnt want to assume..

in the measure youre speaking of it may be easier to use 4th finger to get the A while the G and F# fingers are down..then as you bow lift them as you play notes.   use an upbow at the starting pickup note then alternate bowing till measure 5 and use a slur on the A to B note.   see if that sets you up for measure 7 and slur that phrase for now..just some things looking at the sheet music.  i dont have a bow/fiddle to try it out at the moment but that seems like it will work.  

 

 
 
 
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ELCBK
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January 3, 2022 - 2:11 pm
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@ABitRusty -

Excellent point!

...I forget that not everyone learns equally well to cross strings while also learning to use the 4th finger.

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SharonC
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January 3, 2022 - 2:47 pm
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@RDP 

I’m not much of a fiddler, & I’m not familiar with the piece, but this is how I would bow that first line:

inisheer.jpgImage Enlarger

I like to be consistent in repeated phrases, so to maintain down bow on 1st beat of bar 6 (which is same/similar to bars 1-4), I’d slur the 2nd beat 8th notes in bar 5 (the B & A – same string).  

For bar 7, I’d want to have bar 8 start on a down bow, & so I want to end bar 7 on upbow.  I’d start bar 7 on down bow for the dotted quarter, upbow on the eighth (like previous bars).  For the triplet, since I’m wanting to end it on an upbow, I would opt down bow on the open A (or 4th finger A), then upbow the G & F♯ (on the same string).

Again, a non-fiddler’s opinion. 

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RDP
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January 3, 2022 - 2:59 pm
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ELCBK said
@RDP - 

Do you know the timing value of all the notes, or do you need help with that? 

Otherwise, you play the group of three very quickly - hang on the 3rd a little longer. 

I didn't see an mp3 you could listen to - have you found this version played by anyone on YouTube? 

You can see & here versions that start the same, with how the triplet sounds, at The Session. 

https://thesession.org/tunes/211

  

I think I have the count correct.  It sounds like it should when I hum the notes at that beat.  The music is also 3/4 time.  Basically it's a slow waltz with tons of different versions all over youtube.

 

I'm just not advanced enough to understand everything that's going on.  Which is why I'm having some problems with this, including getting the notes wrong on the D string because I'm just not familiar with looking at that part of the staff.  I'll get it, after a lot more practice, but it's more than I understand right now given my limited experience and lifetime lack of exposure other than the music on the car radio.  (Did you know I don't have anything in the house to play music on and never have had?  Yup, not musical before this point in time at all. Which is weird but don't tell anyone, they already think I'm pretty weird as it is.)

 

Maybe I'll put a video of me playing this up in the critique thread in a month or so after I can play all the parts at one time.  Right now it's back to Suzuki's Allegro.  Perpetual Motion is next week.  Yay, that looks like (gulp) fun?

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ELCBK
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January 3, 2022 - 3:09 pm
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@RDP - 

Leaving your tuner on your violin can help you find the notes.

Check out thesession, org - when you have a minute. 

You can search for types of tunes and also what key you might prefer. 

https://thesession.org/tunes

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ABitRusty
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January 3, 2022 - 4:22 pm
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I think that works better than what i suggested @SharonC ..  I cant remember exactly how i bowed this..i know id put a cut in measure 4 between the 2 b notes and probably slur 5 a little different but the aim would be what you did on the down beats starting each measure.   anyway... your bowings would be a good thing to follow from what i see.. not that it needed my verification 🙂  just liked that you posted it for people to have.  thank you.

agree lookinv through session as well emily..always a good place to start!

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SharonC
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January 3, 2022 - 9:03 pm
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@ABitRusty yeah, I probably do need verification smile

If it's a fiddle tune, I always check The Session - otherwise, I feel like I'm wandering around blind.

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RDP
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January 5, 2022 - 12:04 pm
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Found this.

 

 

It shows that the triplet and the eighth notes are all slurs.  For me that's helpful.

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ABitRusty
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January 5, 2022 - 12:36 pm
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great!  glad you were able to find something helpful.  good video

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ELCBK
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January 5, 2022 - 12:42 pm
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@RDP -

After checking to see what Fiddlerman has, I always check YouTube for audio/visual examples and/or tutorials when learning a new piece.  Makes learning so much easier/faster, when I don't have to interpret a tune solely from the sheet music. 

Great find!

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