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Need some help please
Slur, Video explanation by SharonC, links for appoggiatura & acciaccatura, discussion
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (6 votes) 
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Katie L
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May 25, 2023 - 3:37 pm
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stringy
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May 25, 2023 - 5:09 pm
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Slur with the accent on the C sharp, back to B and open A.

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SharonC
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May 25, 2023 - 7:12 pm
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@Katie L  This is what I would do with it.  Grace Notes:

KatieM - GraceNote

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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ABitRusty
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May 25, 2023 - 7:33 pm
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@SharonC i know you made this for Katie..but i have to say.  youre an excellent teacher.  I was gonna post play the other notes first then fit those grace notes in..IN TIME..  but you explained perfect.

Think you could be giving lessons.  you have a knack for it. 

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SharonC
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May 25, 2023 - 8:10 pm
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@ABitRusty  Thank you--I like to explain things to ensure I understand them myselfsmile

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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ELCBK
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May 25, 2023 - 10:47 pm
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@SharonC -

Excellent tutorial! 

I would've never thought to go to 3rd position, because of what notes were visible in Katie's attachment.  Do you always make sure you don't use open strings?

Thank you for sharing that! 

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SharonC
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May 26, 2023 - 3:50 am
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@ELCBK  Thanks!

ELCBK said
@SharonC -

... Do you always make sure you don't use open strings?
  

It depends.  Based on what is on the page, I’d play it in 3rd  and not play the A open.

In general, I’d want to play a long dotted half note on a non-open string. And I'd want to play the phrase (I'm treating the displayed measure as a phrase) on 1 string. 

Could play in 1st position & play the A open while vibrating 3rd finger A on the E string.  I think I would try that if it was part of a continuous phrase (can’t see what is right before the measure).  Fiddlerman does just that in his version of the Godfather (2nd time through, starting about 2:24), measures 7-8, 15-16.

https://fiddlerman.com/a-tune-.....8;slide=16

When I practice, there are times when I decide on a position for a phrase, change my mind and practice a different position for a few days, then end up returning to the original position I started with.  I used to think that this was wasted time, but it’s not—it’s part of the learning. 

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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stringy
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May 26, 2023 - 5:16 am
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Better way of doing it Sharon;) I was thinking for Irish style playing.

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Katie L
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May 26, 2023 - 12:35 pm
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Thank you Stringy Abitrusty Emily and Sharon for making the fab video. Really helpful ! Third position again eeeek ! But I’ve been kinda looking at third position notes on the 2 octave d major scale.  I agree with Abitrusty you make a great teacher Sharon I love how you repeat everything … thank you 😁

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ELCBK
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May 26, 2023 - 3:17 pm
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@stringy -

I automatically thought the same thing! 

 

@SharonC - 

Thanx!

Hate that I've let myself become 'conditioned' & assume (ashamed to use this word) 'Celtic', or 'Nordic' folk music - just because I spot grace notes in 4/4... and geez, it should've been painfully obvious to me, it doesn't sound right without vibrato! https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/5a/20/2b5a2044f559d22c7c6d3d149a63a719.jpg

I was surprised to learn that an 'Appoggiatura' might be played very differently depending upon what Era it was composed & who composed it (Wikipedia) - besides what genre it falls under!  Really surprised to read that their time value can also depend on how long the principle note is!  Wow, interpreting how discernible that might be (?) 😳 ...never heard anyone talk about it. 

What makes things worse, I think, is when (what looks to be) an 'Appoggiatura' - is really an 'Acciaccatura', like in most traditional folk music!

Anyway, think I've found a very good reference site, with concise explanations of the different kinds - and excellent examples (from 8notes.com): 

The Appoggiatura: A Guide to Ornamentation

The Acciaccatura: A Guide to Ornamentation

 

@Katie L -

You've got me very curious, now! 

What's the name of this piece?  Looks like it has a great rhythm!

REALLY appreciate you asked about the notation, because I learned a LOT! 

THANK YOU!

Please don't let any additional info I provide confuse you - just follow Sharon's tutorial!!!

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/flowers-name-emily-made-real-85441922.jpg

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Katie L
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May 26, 2023 - 3:46 pm
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Well … very random but it’s … drumroll …. The Power of Love !! I mean can’t exactly imagine me playing such a massive ballad on the violin !!! But anyway I liked it because I thought I could use it to practice vibrato but now I’m looking at the rhythm ! 

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stringy
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May 26, 2023 - 3:49 pm
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Emily, I will have to stop thinking one dimensionally, I tend to look at everything through fiddle playing glasses, lol. Sharons way is the best one for normal pieces, no doubt about it, but if that was a fiddle tune I would play it as I described, as you know yourself, Irish fiddle very rarely if ever moves from first position, and I would automatically play it like a backwards roll. sharon is correct though in the way she says it should be done.

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stringy
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May 26, 2023 - 3:52 pm
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Katie, les poules huppees is a great one for practicing vibrato.

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Strabo
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May 26, 2023 - 4:58 pm
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Sharon, that was a great explanation. It made so much sense, seemed so logical!

My reading (and counting) ability is very rudimentary, but you made it all very transparent and easy to grasp. Thank you!

Strabo

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ELCBK
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May 26, 2023 - 7:01 pm
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@Katie L -

The Power of Love by HUEY LEWIS & THE NEWS???   

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/be/2a/a1be2ab2937799c6f2659853afe4be49.jpg

 

...or, Céline Dion? 🤣 

Actually, if you are talking about the worship tune "The Power of Your Love"(?), I might've found something to help.

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SharonC
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May 26, 2023 - 10:24 pm
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@Katie L Thanks, glad it helped— 2 octave D scale is a good scale to start practicing 3rd position. Finding the 1st finger D on the A string is an important “anchor” point for 3rd position.

ELCBK said

...I was surprised to learn that an 'Appoggiatura' might be played very differently depending upon what Era it was composed & who composed it (Wikipedia)...

@ELCBK  The information in the links you have for the appoggiatura & acciaccatura are really good.  I’ve encountered the appoggiatura in the Mozart quartet I’ve been playing (just like the 2nd example in your appoggiatura link).  I’ve gotten used to the annotation now, but I had a hard time with it at first—my brain says “grace note” and wants me to play it the same way I’d play the grace notes in Katie L’s example.

stringy said
Better way of doing it Sharon;) I was thinking for Irish style playing. 

@stringy  Thanks—as I indicated, I’ve posted how I would do it.  I’m not saying that my way is the definitively Right Way; or that other ways are Wrong.  Playing it in 1st position is not wrong, and may even make more sense (depending on what is in the previous measures). I believe if I played it in 1st position, I would use a 3rd finger vibrato on A on the E string to go with the open A string dotted half note.

Strabo said
Sharon, that was a great explanation. It made so much sense, seemed so logical!

My reading (and counting) ability is very rudimentary, but you made it all very transparent and easy to grasp. Thank you!

@Strabo Thanks—I was a percussionist in my youth—I’m all about the counting!  smile

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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Katie L
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May 27, 2023 - 2:50 am
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Sharon you have inspired me to really concentrate on my rhythm. Is there a method you can recommend? I’ve been looking at the I can read music books by Joanna martin. I really need basic stuff. 

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stringy
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May 27, 2023 - 5:30 am
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Sharon I like the way you explained it, and also the way you played it  too, gives a lot more control over it, thats why I said better way of doing it, which I think it is:)  

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ELCBK
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May 27, 2023 - 12:00 pm
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Thanks, Sharon - good to know. 😊

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SharonC
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May 27, 2023 - 7:53 pm
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Katie L said
Sharon you have inspired me to really concentrate on my rhythm. Is there a method you can recommend? I’ve been looking at the I can read music books by Joanna martin. I really need basic stuff. 

  

Sorry, I’m not familiar with any methods. As a drum student when I was young, I learned from a music teacher who insisted that I count everything out loud during my 1st year of lessons, so it’s ingrained in me now. 

I looked at a sample of the Martin book you’ve mentioned—seems to break it down well, but I guess it’s better to see/hear it than to read it in a book.

I found this lady who does a wonderful job explaining basic rhythm notes in this first video—wish her video showed her whole class on this. 

In this other video, she talks about counting in 6/8 time. 

 

A couple of things I would recommend:

Put instrument down, & count out loud. Just like I did in the above video, counting out the basic rhythm of the measure or measures you're working on sets you up to put the notes in right. 

Next, clap out the beat (one, two, three, four) and say the rhythm of the notes you're going to play (e.g,. like I did in video:"one and two, three, four" etc.,).  This helps reinforce the rhythm without the complications of doing the left & right hand things on the violin.

What to call the notes:  There are various ways to do this, & it doesn't really matter what you call each part as long as it makes sense to you.  As a reference, I've attached a copy of "my language" for the rhythms. 

count.JPGImage Enlarger

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Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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