Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Without getting technical - Seems like bowing for classical/pop is slightly different from bowing for fiddle
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
Mouse
May 2, 2021 - 2:02 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 3360
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

From watching videos, it seems to me that there is a slight difference in bowing for classical/pop and for fiddle. There are some similarities, probably more similarities than differences, but there seems to be more of some techniques used for classical/pop and more of others for fiddling.

It seems to me the bowing for classical/pop, probably more for pop songs, that the bowing is smoother, less jerky, for a lack of a better term, again, not a technical person here. 

It seems like there is a lot more abrupt arm movement in the bowing arm when playing most, not all, fiddle music than when playing most, not all, classical/pop music. 

It may be the particular videos I have watched, but that has been my observation. 

The Bumblebee Flies!

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 2:37 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 1833
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

youll even find the same tune/song bowed differntly between fiddlers.  i guess jerky and adrupt depends on your perspective though..  those are terms id work/ am working hard not  to have attached to my playing  

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 3:49 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 2806
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There can be a lot more string crossing along with double stops in fiddling - can look like more hand movement, especially for fast stepping dancing, but you're not going to see that in a slow piece of any style of playing.

Megan Lynch talks about the bowing difference (starting at 2:30). 

 

Avatar
Mouse
May 2, 2021 - 3:50 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 3360
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ABitRusty Jerky and abrupt was not meant in a negative way, 😁. In the videos I watch, most of the time, it seems like fiddlers are moving the bow more, more string crossing. Not as fluent as the classical/pop? Again, not all the time for either form, just for me, based in the videos I have watched, that is what I noticed. I just noticed a difference in bowing.

The Bumblebee Flies!

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 5:07 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 1833
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mouse said
@ABitRusty Jerky and abrupt was not meant in a negative way, 😁. In the videos I watch, most of the time, it seems like fiddlers are moving the bow more, more string crossing. Not as fluent as the classical/pop? Again, not all the time for either form, just for me, based in the videos I have watched, that is what I noticed. I just noticed a difference in bowing.

  

i kniw you didnt...and i know what you were saying.. i think it depends on the fiddler/style of fiddle tune/ the type of tune... I think it helps to put slurs in the right places..for example...this tune just flows to me and he to me is a very smooth player maybe more than most.  alot of whats considered fiddle music is in 4/4 but as someone said (specifically about irish reels which this tune isnt) should really be 8/8  since its mostly eighth notes.   i think its how someone arranges their playing so that they still have that strong beat on 1 & 3 but it doesnt feel like its just up/down/up/down bowing all the way through that makes me like a particular persons playing...and what i hope to get better at.

Avatar
Mouse
May 2, 2021 - 5:38 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 3360
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ABitRusty Sometimes, for me, I think that a fiddle tune is harder to bow. It is because of all those slurs and accents that are really necessary to make it a fiddle tune most of the time. I have been working on a song, with my reorganized practicing, that is a fiddle tune at its core, but it has been played fast and it has been played slow in videos, as fiddle music. It is 3/4 time and I can play it without the slurs and, what would be, hammer downs on a guitar, if I recall correctly. But, for me to play it as all the fiddle videos do, no matter a slow waltzy speed or more of a fiddle speed, the accented beats and hammer downs, well, they are a no go. 

It is a different bowing than I do for the pop and the few classical pieces I can play. I have just noticed that recently. I found a really nice video of the song I am doing, and it was done beautifully, both fast and slow, but the bowing escapes me, as well as the fingering to do the slurs and hammer downs (not sure if I am using the correct term but it will do).

So, I think the accents have to do more with the bowing, the slurs and hammer downs are more left hand fingering. I am not worried about doing either right now.

I have just noticed the difference in playing classical/pop and fiddle. I am using this song for the fingering and bowing because it does so many string crossings and goes up to the B on the E string. Baby steps. So, I don’t try to play it as a fiddler would. 

I am not mentioning the name because I am not after tips on how to play it like a fiddler would and doing so would mess me up. The videos I found messed me up enough. I was just trying to get the general rhythm with them, now I have to forget the fiddle sounding part.  Doing do, made me notice it.

The Bumblebee Flies!

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 6:03 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 1833
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

i know exactly what your saying.. the tunes as notes are simple...staying true to a sound and feel that is close to what the tune is IS the difficult part for me.   BUT,  thats what makes it enjoyable to me.   the catch is you sorta have to like fiddle music i think.  if you dont its hard to listen to it enough to KNOW what to shoot for..that said its totally fine to play it how you want and feel to me.  slow it down speed it up whatever.. thats why they call it fiddlin'

heres another one played by Matt but a little different style i feel.  

 

I DONT think what he is doing is very easy.  i know i cant play and sound "old timey" like that.   i could probably print off the music and play the notes but it wouldnt sound right even if my intonation was perfect and i was playing the notes exactly when they were supposed to be played and with perfect bow speed and pressure.   so dont feel bad just keep at it.  listen alot and try and pick one version of the tune youre working on..sometimes juping to other recordings of same tume by different players confuses things.  youre right its all in the bow

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 6:30 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 1833
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@elcbk   around 8:00 in Meagans video   ...micro tones  wink

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 2, 2021 - 7:17 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 2806
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ABitRusty -

B flat plus. You 

...preeety sure my open A and D strings don't sound like Matt's in Fire On The Mountain - which I really like!

Ah ha - just read, tuned down!  

Whew!  Afraid I listened to so much (lately) that I broke something. 🙄

Avatar
Unfretted
Members
May 2, 2021 - 8:07 pm
Member Since: October 17, 2020
Forum Posts: 30
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

In a nutshell...

The unceasing mantra of my violin teachers growing up:

”Use more bow!”

I finally got that down.

Now, learning the fiddle, the teacher’s mantra:

”Use less bow!”

😂

@Mouse, only because you raised the question:  on guitar it’s called a “hammer on.”

Please don’t “hammer down” the guitar. You might break it.  🎸🔨 🙂

 

Are you sure that they’re doing hammer ons in the fiddle tune and not slides?

Cheers

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
May 13, 2021 - 3:26 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1272
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It always depends a lot on what you're playing. Consider this piece, by a composer who was heavily influenced by fiddle music:

You'll notice that, in the fast theme, the first violins are hardly using any bow except on a handful of accented notes, and they're doing plenty of string crossing. It doesn't sound exactly like fiddlers (after all, it's fiddle-influenced classical) but the bowing technique definitely moves toward what @Mouse is describing as fiddle bowing.

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 13, 2021 - 4:08 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1630
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Unfretted said

”Use more bow!”

...

”Use less bow!” 

Not just fiddle - classical too. I started off on the Corelli sarabande and had to learn to use more bow and bow pressure. Then when you get to some serious fast, loud Vivaldi, you have to use a lot less bow.

The OP mentions POP, not just fiddle. Classical musicians have to realise that pop music can have the main beat (i.e. down bow) in different places. I was at a gig a few years ago where there was a classical quintet who did a piece of pop music, but they emphasised the first and third beats of every bar when they should have been emphasising the second and fourth! (the off-beats). You have to have a feel for it, and classical musicians often lack that feel.

Andrew

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
June 1, 2021 - 1:36 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15668
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@andrew, Paavo Järvi was our chief conductor for many years. I've known him since 1988 when I was a concert master in Gavle Symphony Orchestra.
Cool to watch him in this video as well as the Alfen Shepherd Girls Dance which we played frequently as an encore. LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Jim Dunleavy
Guest(s) 56
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming oceanwiser, Georganne, brewyet, Krootie, PaganinisGhost, Viking Violinist, ptrckmcconn, Octopus.Violinus, xTIDx, cashierjim, Bella86, 1 Whiz Kid, Mouse
Top Posters:
Mad_Wed: 2849
ELCBK: 2806
Barry: 2680
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
damfino: 1992
Kevin M.: 1972
ABitRusty: 1833
cdennyb: 1815
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 27556
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 77
Topics: 9250
Posts: 115440
Newest Members:
nfkjasfas, bethandmars, tmoreland, holstain12, radottb, RDP
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 15668, KindaScratchy: 1757, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3630, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 3360