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Audition - I need advice
Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 (2 votes) 
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Fiddlerman
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July 23, 2018 - 1:50 pm
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LizaA said
I'm in thumbs-up  

NO NO NO,,,,, That won't do it for us. LOL

Details please. 🙂 After all that we want details. I'm super happy for you!!!

I feel like it was our audition since we were involved. 😉

Was the person for whom you have a crush present for the audition?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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LizaA
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July 24, 2018 - 10:15 pm
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I spent most of the day before the audition practicing up to 1 a.m, then I woke up about 5 a.m to do some extra work on some the hard parts of the piece (which I never got to play in the audition).

I was there a few minutes earlier and I got to know the place and some of the people. Everyone there is great, and they were very supportive. The place itself seems fantastic, and I think I'll love to have rehearsals there every week.

Before the audition I got to talk with the rest of the people taking it, apparently none of us had a lot of time to prepare (nobody knew about it until two weeks prior). It got me quite worried since they're all very talented and I still think I'm far below their skill. Now in regards to the audition itself, it was very short. I only had to play a fragment of what I prepared, then I had to sight read something they gave me. I got quite nervous while sight reading, but I guess it was enough to pass (barely).

After that the director had a talk with all of about the school.

 

Now, after seeing the music sheet of what I will be playing, I think I'm starting to feel anxious again.  The pieces aren't that long, but I don't know if I willl be able to learn them all before our next reunion. I hope they won't be too harsh on us during our first day.

P.S: THAT PERSON was the one to grade my audition 😮

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Fiddlerman
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July 25, 2018 - 1:07 pm
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Cool. Thanks for the details. Don't worry too much about the first rehearsal. It's easier to play when you are one in a group.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Oh congratulations!  Remember it is a school, there to teach you.  So you don't have to know everything already.  Have fun!

 

Opportunity is often missed because it wears suspenders and looks like hard work.

 

Alaska, the Madness; Bloggity Stories of the North Country

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pchoppin
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@LizaA

I would just like to add one more thing.. Your very first statement you made on your original post needs to END NOW!

You need to stop telling yourself you suck or your bad or you are not qualified or you cannot play very well or any of the negative things you are telling yourself because this will not be your last audition or challenge or struggle with violin!  You must change how you perceive yourself and your playing.

Violin, or any of the string instruments, is difficult.  It requires that you continually work and learn and try, even when you think things are not going well.  You cannot afford to tell yourself negative things like this.  It is just not going to get you where you need to be.

Tell yourself you have made good progress, you are moving ahead, you can get to the next level of playing.  Never "I am not good", "I suck".  This just will not lead you to success with this instrument.

Congratulations on this success!  Now use this as your success story you will tell yourself so that you can face the next challenge!

- Pete -

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Demoiselle
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I have vibratophobia for example, had it since I was a child. I just hated to hear the vibrato of a solo violin. In the 70s I protested when my parents wanted me to play the violin, so I didn't have to learn it. Vibratoless baroque music was as good as not to hear in public in those days. When I discovered it in the late 90s I suddenly wanted to play the violin.

So there's really a vibratoless life in the world of playing the violin, also in jazz and folk. Anyway, vibrato can be very exhausting -- it is hard enough to play the violin already without it. So why should I torture myself with vibrato? It would mean less fun.

Playing like a robot is frequent as a result of classical teaching. Natural musicality is listening first, liking it and then trying to imitate. Good musicians have listened to music daily and for hours when they learned to play it. Many classical scholars just follow the sheets they get from their teachers and hardly get motivation out of listening to music. They learn to play music like an old autopiano which plays from piano rolls. Which indeed was an early robot. Natural learning music should be more trying to play something because it's touching you and less just playing what your teacher wants you to play. Teachers should mind that, but sadly many violin teachers are merciless.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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Demoiselle
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I had a male vocal teacher when I was young. The result was so-so.

Then I had a school practice in the local theater. For one week I witnessed young female opera singers rehearsing The Flying Dutchman right before my eyes. The young woman who sang the part of Mary touched me a lot. And when the school practice was over people suddenly said I was singing beautifully. Mary had just been standing a few feet away from me while rehearsing, just like my teacher. But for me she was the better inspiration than my male teacher. Technic is not everything, music must come from the heart. My teacher couldn't touch me with the female vocal charm Mary had. I was lacking exactly that kind of inspiration.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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AndrewH
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Personal taste can differ, though. I for one dislike the sound of a string instrument played without vibrato, and especially dislike open string sounds, so I'm actually not a fan of Baroque and Classical period performance. (I'll still play mostly without vibrato if I'm playing music from those eras, I just won't like the sound. BTW, I believe Baroque and Classical music should still use some vibrato, but only enough for emphasis at a few key points in a piece.) In any case, I consider most choices about whether to use vibrato, and what type of vibrato to use, to be highly personal.

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Demoiselle
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AndrewH said
Personal taste can differ, though. I for one dislike the sound of a string instrument played without vibrato, and especially dislike open string sounds, so I'm actually not a fan of Baroque and Classical period performance. (I'll still play mostly without vibrato if I'm playing music from those eras, I just won't like the sound. BTW, I believe Baroque and Classical music should still use some vibrato, but only enough for emphasis at a few key points in a piece.) In any case, I consider most choices about whether to use vibrato, and what type of vibrato to use, to be highly personal.  

You are very right! That's why I always talk about myself and never like, "Quit vibrato." There is no reason why vibrato should be a bad thing in general. Some people find a vibrating violin very touching, in my case it can really freak me out. Though not any violin vibrato is paining me. And the vibrato of wind instruments doesn't at all. Fiddlerman's vibrato not either. But there are many classical violin players who have a very hysteric kind of vibrato, which may be unnatural too. Which must have kinda traumatized me when I was a child -- or to say it less hysterically: it turned me off.

I was thinking a lot about vocal vibrato over the last months. There are many opera sopranos and mezzo-sopranos who show an hysteric vibrato which almost resembles the noise of a goat as I feel. But these are all dramatic vocalists -- the vibrato of a lyrical singer can be very beautiful. Many vocal teachers stress, that the vibrato of the human voice would be a natural thing and they warn to suppress it. That's what I never did as singer.

I read a in several places, that vibrato was debated a lot already during the baroque period. And there where differing opinions in this matter. I'm still not sure how the leading female part of a tragic opera was singing in the early 1700s. Following my personal experience I feel like dramatic singing without vibrato is not possible and if it's done it may harm the voice. My personal consequence is to take drama as much out of the voice as possible, although I have certain dramatic talent. But I like lyrical singing better. It seems vibrato came from vocal vibrato into instrumental music. In singing it is natural if it just happens and I will only sing without if this feels easy as well.

Nonetheless, whenever I hear someone complaining about difficulties with vibrato I will say, "Listen, you don't need it absolutely necessarily." Not to talk people into vibratoless playing, but just to help. In my case there are days when I run up the stairs fast and easily. But there are other days when I feel sick and tired and heavy-legged. And those heavy-legged days are exactly those on which I tire soon while practicing on the violin. So why should I make it harder by adding vibrato? In 1930s popular love songs vibrato is normal. I have always been a crooner in that style, so theoretically I could use violin vibrato there and sort of understand it in a parodistic way.... you know, the very mushy way which can sound even funny in modern ears. But no, I'm not gonna torture myself with vibrato.... maybe in a couple years....

Coming back to baroque style there are various ways common: frequently, at times, rarely and not at all. There's no common rule but various ideas.

Open strings.... I love especially the open E string. To me it sounds beautifully clear like the clearest spring water.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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Demoiselle
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Considering robotic playing I think notes should be left aside for some time in such cases. I don't like people who are totally opposed to sheet music and constantly argue against it. Notes are very practical and a great help to learn new tunes. But in my case I have seen how following sheets while playing takes away the heart out of my music. Not completely, but I play nicer if I leave the sheet aside. That's my experience on trumpet for example. The violin to me is the extreme case because it is such a huge multitasking challenge. I see the great danger of struggling too much with several technical issues at one time and the notes will take the rest of the possibility to find to your heart and learn to express yourself. Humans differ. Some are great multitaskers, others are not. And those who are not should possibly leave sheets aside as much as possible -- especially as beginners. In my case I'm sure notes would have been very harmful. Those who are considered untalented may do better without sheets. The teacher can play a phrase and then the student imitates it. With no sheets which take away attention to the way it's played.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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AndrewH
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Demoiselle said

You are very right! That's why I always talk about myself and never like, "Quit vibrato." There is no reason why vibrato should be a bad thing in general. Some people find a vibrating violin very touching, in my case it can really freak me out. Though not any violin vibrato is paining me. And the vibrato of wind instruments doesn't at all. Fiddlerman's vibrato not either. But there are many classical violin players who have a very hysteric kind of vibrato, which may be unnatural too. Which must have kinda traumatized me when I was a child -- or to say it less hysterically: it turned me off.

I was thinking a lot about vocal vibrato over the last months. There are many opera sopranos and mezzo-sopranos who show an hysteric vibrato which almost resembles the noise of a goat as I feel. But these are all dramatic vocalists -- the vibrato of a lyrical singer can be very beautiful. Many vocal teachers stress, that the vibrato of the human voice would be a natural thing and they warn to suppress it. That's what I never did as singer.

I read a in several places, that vibrato was debated a lot already during the baroque period. And there where differing opinions in this matter. I'm still not sure how the leading female part of a tragic opera was singing in the early 1700s. Following my personal experience I feel like dramatic singing without vibrato is not possible and if it's done it may harm the voice. My personal consequence is to take drama as much out of the voice as possible, although I have certain dramatic talent. But I like lyrical singing better. It seems vibrato came from vocal vibrato into instrumental music. In singing it is natural if it just happens and I will only sing without if this feels easy as well.

Nonetheless, whenever I hear someone complaining about difficulties with vibrato I will say, "Listen, you don't need it absolutely necessarily." Not to talk people into vibratoless playing, but just to help. In my case there are days when I run up the stairs fast and easily. But there are other days when I feel sick and tired and heavy-legged. And those heavy-legged days are exactly those on which I tire soon while practicing on the violin. So why should I make it harder by adding vibrato? In 1930s popular love songs vibrato is normal. I have always been a crooner in that style, so theoretically I could use violin vibrato there and sort of understand it in a parodistic way.... you know, the very mushy way which can sound even funny in modern ears. But no, I'm not gonna torture myself with vibrato.... maybe in a couple years....

Coming back to baroque style there are various ways common: frequently, at times, rarely and not at all. There's no common rule but various ideas.

Open strings.... I love especially the open E string. To me it sounds beautifully clear like the clearest spring water.  

At least philosophically, we're in agreement then. I may dislike long notes without vibrato, but I also think vibrato should be tasteful, not over-the-top. A coloratura soprano style vibrato should not be heard more than one or two times in an entire concert, if even that many.

I also think one common mistake made by both teachers and students is to start vibrato too soon, at the expense of good intonation.

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Demoiselle
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AndrewH said

At least philosophically, we're in agreement then. I may dislike long notes without vibrato, but I also think vibrato should be tasteful, not over-the-top. A coloratura soprano style vibrato should not be heard more than one or two times in an entire concert, if even that many.
 

Like dirty growls and blue notes are good spice in jazz, but if you do it all the time it's just nasty. Whenever I sang with hysterical vibrato it was parody. I did Mozart and Wagner parody in the 90s. But frankly, Wagner didn't want shrill high notes. I read books, written by international voice teachers. And they said, Wagner wanted a very light voice leading in the high range. So they don't do it right today, since they scream like crazy. Even Wagner should be sang way more lyrically than we're used to! And less hysteric. Richard Wagner was a very sensitive type, I cannot imagine he would appreciate hysterical opera goat noise.

I also think one common mistake made by both teachers and students is to start vibrato too soon, at the expense of good intonation. 

That's why vibrato would be too soon in my case, because I'm still watching my intonation and this still takes all my attention. Vibrato would awfully throw me back, I'm sure of that. There would be no more ease. From that perspective I'm lucky to be an ancient music lover.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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Fiddlerman
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August 15, 2018 - 9:08 am
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AndrewH said
Personal taste can differ, though. I for one dislike the sound of a string instrument played without vibrato, and especially dislike open string sounds, so I'm actually not a fan of Baroque and Classical period performance. (I'll still play mostly without vibrato if I'm playing music from those eras, I just won't like the sound. BTW, I believe Baroque and Classical music should still use some vibrato, but only enough for emphasis at a few key points in a piece.) In any case, I consider most choices about whether to use vibrato, and what type of vibrato to use, to be highly personal.  

I used to feel that way too Andrew. However, the challenge is to try to make music without vibrato by using other forms of colors and dynamics, petting, ponticello, crescendo, diminuendo, etc.....

I started a tune a week thing about a year ago and try to play without vibrato the first few times and it is extremely challenging. Especially since I learned to vibrate on all notes. Something that I have to learn to undo. 🙂

I've heard some baroque musicians who really know how to sound great without vibrato and it's impressive.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Demoiselle
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Fiddlerman said

............................................

I started a tune a week thing about a year ago and try to play without vibrato the first few times and it is extremely challenging. Especially since I learned to vibrate on all notes. Something that I have to learn to undo. 🙂
...........................................

I had the same issue with singing and recorders. It took me years and came back whenever I wasn't focusing on nonevibrato.

..........................................

I've heard some baroque musicians who really know how to sound great without vibrato and it's impressive.  

I am trying to learn from them by listening over and over again to their violin sonatas. It is a question of feeling it deeply. I think it helps to listen to as many baroque violin players as possible. They all resemble, but each of them in a very personal way. The greater the variety of players in my CD collection, the better the chance to find ways to express which fit my personality. Right now, with a bad headache, I can't. 🙁

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string.

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tiffanyroseviolin
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I know, you will be a winner for this event, firstly you just need to be trust yourself, and give performance skillfully with confidence.

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tiffanyroseviolin
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You just need to take a deep breath. This is just a part of your experience, you have to be learnt from it and how you can improve yourself. Just focus on your aim. 

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