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I finally found some violin music from India I really LOVE - probably more fusion than traditional and the romantic Film music suits me, also.
I'm not an authority on this subject, but if you'd like to join me - my journey to learning starts here!
Basics - Wikipedia!
Pitch names - "The seven notes of the musical scale in Indian classical music are Shadja (षड्ज), Rishabh (ऋषभ), Gandhara (गान्धार), Madhyama (मध्यम), Panchama (पंचम), Dhaivata (धैवत) and Nishada (निषाद). These seven swaras are shortened to Sa, Ri/Re (Carnatic) (Hindustani), Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, and Ni."
"According to the music scholars of the distant past, the shruti is generally understood as a microtone besides veda and an ear. In the context of advanced music, a shruti is the smallest gradation of pitch that a human ear can detect and a singer or instrument can produce.[4] There are 22 shruti or microtones in a saptaka of Indian music but Carnatic music assumes 24 shruti due to influence of 24 Hangaam of Arabic music. A swara is a selected pitch from 22 shrutis, using several of such swaras a musician constructs scales, melodies and ragas."
"Swaras (notes) appear in successive steps in an octave."
The Indian SCALE is like our Western, aural Solfège (but, seeing hints it may be the movable form - just learned there are 2 forms of solfège).
More on individual parts/aspects, later.
Chart for Carnatic Ragas - This might be confusing, "Ragas" are a little different than our scales! (lol) JUST KNOW IT"S HERE - it's not necessary for following tutorials and will make more sense later.
"Melakarta is a collection of fundamental ragas (musical scales) in Carnatic music (South Indian classical music). The Katapayadi sankhya is a hashing method to determine the number of a melakarta raga from the first two syllables of the name of the raga. Read the chart from the circumference to the centre to identify the 7 composite swaras."
"What is the difference between a scale and a raga?" (Raag Hindustani) video.
"Raag Hindustani" is a great YouTube site for video tutorials on many raga and rhythm!
That's enough for this post!
Thanx, @ABitRusty - for our little discussion of Bollywood. (lol)
- Emily
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Just a little step further - to help clarify things?
Btw, Drones are important, used to anchor the raga.
"Types of Ragas" (VoxGuru).
Gamakas are ornaments important for Ragas - some notes are "special".
"How to sing Gamakas?" (VoxGuru ft. Pratibha Sarathy) - important info!
Violin Gamaka Exercise
"Morning Violin Practice Basics | Gamakas" - (Easy Music Tutorials).
💥 This is in our Western tuning GDAE! Exercise starts at 1:08.
Really great info/many tutorials at both the "Easy Music Tutorials" and "VoxGuru" YouTube sites!
...patience - getting to some nice music!
- Emily
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I didn't have any luck last year, finding good info to learn about Indian music, so I'm thrilled to find it now!
Simple, straight forward info from Chandrakantha.com - Chandra & David Courtney's wonderful website... packed a lot in here. (lol)
🧡 ♥ 💛 ♥ 💚 ♥ 💙 ♥ 💜 ♥ ❤
There's a chart here that compares swara to solfège.
- a much better description by David Courtney.
"Saptak - The Indian Scale" (David Courtney).
♥ Mode = "That" in the North and "Mela" in Southern India.
"Modes and Scales in Indian Music" (David Courtney) - there are 72 used in Carnatic music of Southern India (the Chart in my 1st post).
"That (thaat) - The Indian Modes" (David Courtney) - used in Hindustani music, Northern India.
"There are problems whenever one is talking about the number of thats. Generally only ten are acknowledged; twenty are in common usage; while 32 are possible given present concepts of scale construction. This has created a lot of confusion in north Indian pedagogy. Three common scales which are not part of the ten thats are Ahir Bhairav, Charukesi, or Kiruvani." (from this page)
"Swar Lipi, Indian Musical Notation" - An Overview by David Courtney.
"Overview of Indian Filmi and Pop Music" by David & Chandra Courtney.
"Overview of Indian Folk Music" by David Courtney.
Anyone know any Bollywood Dance tunes good for the Fiddle, or Viola, or Cello?
Tired and my laptop is ready to burn up... so, glad there's some great video tutorials available, now.
- Emily
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Different tunings for Indian Violin!
Learn the Technique of Indian Violin - 1st Lesson "Tuning the Violin" (TheSingingViolin). CROSS TUNING - very easy on VIOLA, or 5 string violin. 😁
- Emily
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🤔 I should probably point out some big issues I have, learning about Indian Classical Music.
- Way too many rules. 🙄 I acknowledge/respect the rules, but I can't remember all these & don't need to for tutorials.
- Seems like 50 different names for every, single, thing! 😳 Very confusing, but comparing different sources of materials has helped to clarify terms and processes.
Finally, a little more clarity about "Gamakas" at Indian-Heritage.org!
I'm still finding more good basic info at Chandrakantha.com! Thank goodness this site has highlighted all the hard-to-remember terms and linked to definitions - my favorite kind of rabbit hole!
Carnatic Sangeet - The South Indian System of Music" (David Courtney). A little more on how it relates to the Northern Hindustani Sangeet.
More about Ragas, tempo (Lay) & rhythm (Tal) from David Courtney.
Ragas, Lay (tempo), Tal (rhythm)
Index of Tals (David Courtney).
This site has a good article on "Indian Classical Music: Tuning and Ragas" by Catherine Schmidt-Jones. Interesting correlation with Church modes. Also, GREAT help with understanding Indian tuning here!
Guess it's time for me to try some of this... refrained from saying "execute". 😁
"Can a Violin Sound Like an Erhu or Kokyu? Can a Cello?" https://fiddlerman.com/forum/p.....a-cello/
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ELCBK said
@Gordon Shumway - are you still interested in Indian music?
Yes, but I doubt I'll ever learn to play it - much of the time it is best to leave the specialisms to the specialists. And my memory is really bad.
I bought two violin CDs, but they turned out both to be Carnatic, so I still don't have any northern stuff.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
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* edited! ...as of August 1, 2022 - chandrakantha.com site is temporarily under construction.
@Gordon Shumway -
I don't see what specialisms or specialists have to do with your having fun playing the violin.
Knew I probably threw too much info in this thread, but please see I have added some easy access to try this music.
I've edited my 2nd & 3rd posts.
Post No.2 has an easy Gamaka exercise.
I's the sliding! And, it's in our Western tuning GDAE.
Post No.3 has 2 Tutorials.
The 1st Tutorial is easiest. It's only played on 3 strings - so, tune your G string up to A and just don't use your E string. It will look in the video like he starts on the E string, but it is actually your A (it's DADA tuning).
Maybe give it a try?
Drones in Indian Music
(David Courtney)
Indian Genre
(David Courtney)
If you need to know the swara (notes), hope this makes it easier to understand - they are chromatic, but must be transcribed so that S is always the ROOT/TONIC - the start of the scale/raga. This example is only good for scales/ragas starting with "C".
If you'd like to try some INDO-JAZZ (with sheet music) - ck out this FM link:
HAVE FUN!
- Emily
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@ABitRusty - you might find this post of use.
More on Indian Rhythm (Tal or Taal).
In Post No.6, I gave a link that described 16 Tals - up to 21 beats.
Two of the most popular are - "Tintal" - 16 beats (aka. Teen Taal) and "Keharwa" - 8 beats (aka. Kaherva, Kherawa, etc...). PLUS, there are different styles of each Taal!
Here's a C# "Tintal" (16 beat) Tabla Loop - 140 BPM by Anhad Kirtan.
Here Tari Khan shows how styles of "Kherwa" Taal (8 beat) differ - Europe, USA, etc...
Here's a 7 beat, A# Teora Taal tabla loop at 150 BPM (Indian Classical Mind). This is most likely an alias of "Tivra/Teevra" Tal - too many language variants. (lol)
FIND VERY HELPFUL (anyone can use): here's a large variety of Taal Tabla Loops with different drones - even more on individual YouTube sites/channels. More searches can also be made for individual types of Taal (ck Post No.6).
Most of these video loops give the name of the drone (tonic note), BPM and type of rhythm.
...still need to explore which ones I might want to use the most for backing tracks.
- Emily
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For a style of music that takes pride in coloring with micro tones, I'm baffled at how popular the keyboard is for Hindustani music. Maybe it's purpose is to make all the popular Bollywood songs more accessible. 🤔
- Emily
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ELCBK said
Geez, this is turning out to be just a personal blog...I'm still listening to different tabla loops for rhythms, but I did find another tune I'd like to learn.
A short cover of "Roja Jaaneman" (AR Rahman) with Nandini Shankar and Kaadhal Rojave.
No adventurous Fiddle players out there?
...would sound great on EV.
- Emily
about a year or so ago I couldve swore she or someone claiming to be her posted a couple of videos.
I looked through the drum loops..whats up with most being in A# , C# , D# and such? I found one that said it was in D and about 120bpm..sounded like it would work as a drum loop to practice a reel to..sorta hummed one to it. Have You played anything to one? what did you find out
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i found this in game of thrones thread, but I think she actually did post a video playing. beluve it was a greenish electric violin. maybe she still visits here?
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*update, edit
@ABitRusty -
Hey, Thanx!
Thought the name sounded familiar, but I couldn't remember from where!
I had just joined the forum back then, for Game of Thrones and I don't recall seeing those videos until last week on her YouTube site - or any of that info she posted in that thread, until today!
Darn! If I had seen them I probably would've been more interested, earlier.
Looks like Nandini wasn't really active here after the Game of Thrones - probably didn't see enough other interest or activity to stay. I looked at her YouTube site before I posted that video (I love other music she plays, also). Nandini's bio is a killer - doubt she has time to linger here.
Here's a link to Nandini's YouTube site/videos. Her "Raga Livewire" video is a lot of fun (Hindustani Rock).
*New! She just (this morning) came out with a beautiful new single, called "Grandma's Hands", with Jesse Bannister - his piano is re-tuned for this performance!
Grandma's Hands - Nandini Shankar
About the Tabla loops... I noticed there were only a few tonics available, too - maybe those are just the common drones. I'll have to go back up to #6, find the 16 Tals and search for loops of each (maybe I'll learn more).
I want to be able to play with a backing tract, but I'm still stressing out about making a mistake (which I always do), afraid I can't get back in time with the track. So, I'm learning more about them while practicing, hope to be ready when my new laptop arrives! I also really want to learn "Prem Ratan Dhan Payo".
@nandinishankar -
If you ever get a chance to pop back in here on the Fiddlerman Forum, maybe you could help me get straightened out in this thread I started to help me learn and get other members interested in trying to play some Indian music!
...in need of all the help I can get. (lol)
- Emily
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I don't know what links I posted in other threads, but Soumik Datta is very good, both as a musician and as a teacher.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
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*edited. Move some info to post #12 of the Bollywood, Tollywood & Kollywood Music for Violin Thread
@Gordon Shumway -
Very cool - Thank you!
I see Soumik Datta has had his hands in some really great music projects!
I'm particularly interested in finding his 6-part series that was shown on BBC Earth, called "Tuning 2 You: Lost Musicians of India". Soumik's site only has trailers for it and the BBC Earth site shows nothing.
Know where to find it?
Here's the link for Soumik Datta's YouTube site - more about his other music projects.
- Emily
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"...
I want to be able to play with a backing tract, but I'm still stressing out about making a mistake (which I always do), afraid I can't get back in time with the track..."
I dont understand the stress on that.. I kinda feel like theres three types of backing..the first and most simple would just be a drum or ryhthm track. These can be different ryhthms than youd usually associate with a style so dont rule anything out... sometimes you get a nice groove going you normally wouldnt expect. The second type would be a backing made specifically for a particular tune. With chords that fit the key and melody...even a drum track of some sort added.. then theres finding a backing made for say improvisation. Youll find alot of these on youtube for guitarist to practice scales and such to. With those just pick a key and let 'er rip. youll make what you consider "mistakes"..timing wrong or sour note..whatever... but youll also find some neat things that you can come up with on the fly. These pre-made key type backing tracks are really cool for scale and arpeggio practice if you havent tried them.. look some up on youtube..you dont need anything else for that. You may even come up with a new tune that way..so record if you can. you never know till you give it a shot!
***Edit**
on the improv type stuff..one trick is to give notes or phrases room or space. juat afew notes at first..then set out for a measure.then play again. repeat phrases you like..then add a little.
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@ABitRusty -
Thanx - I agree with you, completely.
It's just me working against myself, not wanting to use a metronome or try to keep time better.
If I fumble while playing a cover, I can at least hear the melody - where to sync back up. I don't have that with just a backing tract, my brain scrambles & I just fall apart. So, I've just been avoiding the anxiety. Didn't care before, because I'm not playing with anyone, but realize that's just me being lazy.
...confirming the critical thoughts I have about my playing is a good thing, so - guess the only way to get over this is to start regularly practicing with tracks!
Tabla loops w/NO DRONE!
Not having a drone eliminates Key worries.
A R Music is one of my favorites. Loops with variable patterns & w/out drones, or with drones (EVEN MINOR) and much more interesting stuff!
Sunil Music has a wealth of rich, multi-level percussion loops!
Sound of Sargam has 2 really nice Loops - 1st is a Bollywood Mix Beat (❤), the 2nd is a Kherwa Loop mix!
Dholak Kherwa Loop w/variations
AK Productions has super Dholak Loops that are multi-percussion.
Multi -instrument Dholak Loops
Ultra Simple Music also has Indian multi-percussion loops.
Here's a great Loop I like from Dev Kripa Music Anwalhera.
Keharava dholak tabla mix loops 80 Bpm
Many Loops at TablaRadio, but are very basic.
Gurzaib Music has some "1 Hour Practicing Loops" and a few very interesting "100 Variations Of" videos!
I'm looking forward to creating custom tracks - there's no excuses there. (lol) 🤔 Been keeping a keen eye on how these guys with their "Indian keyboard tutorials" switch or add in extras to their backing during the videos - like guitarists use pedals.
...enough to keep busy for a while. (lol)
- Emily
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ELCBK said
I see Soumik Datta...I'm particularly interested in finding his 6-part series that was shown on BBC Earth, called "Tuning 2 You: Lost Musicians of India". Soumik's site only has trailers for it and the BBC Earth site shows nothing.
It looks as though it was made for Channel 4, not BBC
Andrew
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Gordon Shumway said
ELCBK said
I see Soumik Datta...I'm particularly interested in finding his 6-part series that was shown on BBC Earth, called "Tuning 2 You: Lost Musicians of India". Soumik's site only has trailers for it and the BBC Earth site shows nothing.
It looks as though it was made for Channel 4, not BBC
https://www.google.com/search?.....s+of+india
https://www.soumikdatta.com/pr.....-channel-4
these look good..Hopefully will get a chance to watch sometime in next day or so.
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If you can find them. I haven't yet made any genuine attempt to find them.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
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Gordon Shumway said
If you can find them. I haven't yet made any genuine attempt to find them.
i didnt notice they were previews..after you posted this i checked amazon prime..they're not there ..not on youtube either
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