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Anyone Interested in a "Scandinavian Fiddle Genre"?
Sweden, Norway & Finland
Topic Rating: 4.9 Topic Rating: 4.9 Topic Rating: 4.9 Topic Rating: 4.9 Topic Rating: 4.9 Topic Rating: 4.9 (33 votes) 
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ELCBK
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September 15, 2020 - 7:04 pm
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HP - Thank you!

Fiddlerman fixed this!  Now this thread is under the broader category, "Nordic". 

I wanted to include Finland because we have an active member who is Finnish and there is a strong fiddle community/culture there. 

I also realized (right after I started this thread) I'd forgotten to mention "Denmark" in the description of this thread, but it is definitely included under this heading.

 

I should also quote this from Wikipedia -

"In English usage, Scandinavia also sometimes refers more narrowly to the Scandinavian Peninsula, or more broadly so as to include the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, Finland and Iceland.[3][a]

The broader definition is similar to what are locally called the Nordic countries, which also include the remote Norwegian islands of Svalbard and Jan Mayen and Greenland, a constituent country within the Kingdom of Denmark." 

 

I believe this is a very rich, important Genre of Fiddle/violin music that we should all explore!

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/scandinavian-flags-vector-file-87166341.jpg

- Emily          THANK YOU, FIDDLERMAN!!!

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Fiddlerman
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September 23, 2020 - 3:38 pm
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ELCB said 
- Emily          THANK YOU, FIDDLERMAN!!!

It's all on you Emily. :) You are very welcome. I should have a lot of input for Scandinavian/Nordic music since I lived in Sweden for 20 years.

Haven't had time to listen to all the great links that you guys have been sharing but the ones that I have checked out are great.

Thanks

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ELCBK
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Just leaped down another rabbit hole! (lol) 

My new favorite Band, Spælimenninir does a great Swedish tune, "Konvulsionslåt".  When I tried to learn more, found it was originally written for the Moraharpa - an early predecessor to the Nyckelharpa! 

Konvulsionslåt

Here's a link to more info on the Moraharpa and "Konvulsionslåt". 

https://nyckelharpaeffect.blog.....lat.html 

I'm sharing this wonderful "Marianna's Hambo", by Spælimenninir because the switches between major and minor parts really make it enjoyable! 

Marianna's Hambo

A "Hambo" is a Swedish traditional dance in 3/4 time, like a waltz - so it's a waltz to me! (lol)  I think it's also popular with Contra dance groups.

God Jul! 

 

giphy.gif

 

- Emily 

Going to have to play these a little, probably more so after the Holidays.  I sure hope I can remember half of what I've been playing lately...

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ELCBK
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Everyone might enjoy this piece composed by Cellist Leo Svensson. 

Felt some strong imagery listening to "Force Majeure", like people slowly rising from rubble, dusting themselves off with determination.  They take a moment to stretch out weary joints and muscles, then move steadily forward with conviction. 

I have a tendency to be overly dramatic - a wishful thinker, but we probably all need a little faith right now (of some kind)... these are troubling times. 

"Force Majeure" performed by the "Bowing 9" String Orchestra.  Leo is joined by Mia & Mikael Marin.  Many play 5-string instruments (even cello)!

 

giphy.gif

 

A very enjoyable piece you may want to learn! 

- Emily

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ELCBK
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January 13, 2021 - 2:02 am
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For Violinist, Violists and Cellists, even Double Bassists! 

I didn't realize that "Force Majeure" (Leo Svensson) was the title piece to an album!   Loving the 5-string Cello... other 5-string instruments in here, too.🥰

Can't get "Halka" (Adrian Jones) out of my head!

Halka

"Bowing 9 - The Folk String Orchestra" plays music composed only by it's members on this album.  Mia Marine and Mikael Marin are 2 of the members.  I just listened to 5 other great samples and there are even 4 more pieces on the album - loving ALL of them!   

More info, check out available books of String Ensemble music, other CDs and you can listen HERE! 

 

https://miamarine.se/index.php.....90349/info

https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2017/07/25/00/38/quartet-2536555_640.png

 

- Emily

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ELCBK
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January 16, 2021 - 1:37 am
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Has anyone taken a stab at any of these tunes, besides Ilona and ClaireS?  

 

@GregW -  Did you ever play "Old Reinlender"?  Or try any other ones? 

 

I've played a good amount from this thread and the Vals one - learned by ear, of course. 

My latest are:

    1. "Valssi Jaanalle" - memorized, pretty good but 1 little spot (not 100% sure what I'm hearing)
    2. "Valssi" (Pihlaja) - memorized, really fun parts, there really aren't any ornaments - maybe wouldn't hurt to add some.😁
    3. "Vals efter Per Röst" - only played this a couple times, needs little more work. 
    4. "Marianna's Hambo" - memorized & playing at speed, having crazy fun with this (Post No.63).  Won't be right without ALL the ornaments & there's a zillion of them in this tune!

I didn't think the ornaments would give me such a hard time!

I assumed because of the Irish and Scottish music I've played, but I'm thinking now that I'm maybe overlooking some in those tunes also.🙄

I get most of them, but there's very important ornaments meant for where I don't expect them to go - seem unnatural, but integral to the genre. 

Trying to get used to some of the Nordic rhythms is hard enough - many of the ornaments are even more unnatural for me.😖  Disappointed I don't always hear all of them right away, guess I'm not quite in the right mindset, yet!

The melodies are really FUN, but they aren't going to be right until I can straighten out these ornaments - mainly, put them in the right place. 

🤔 Going to be terribly hard to stop having fun while I slow everything down, concentrate and analyze, but think I need to.  Just can't do this and work on Skye Boat rewrite. 

I'm on another Mission! 

 

giphy.gif 

Yeah, I'm good at multitasking, only when tasks don't require me to think... 🥴

- Emily

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GregW
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"Did you ever play "Old Reinlender"?  Or try any other ones? "

I have not.  messed with mysoxen some one day after it was posted but never went anywhere with it.

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AndrewH
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I've played two of the tunes that the Danish String Quartet collected and arranged, by ear off the YouTube videos: at least Old Reinlender and Bosse Nordin's Schottis, and I think one or two others, a year or two ago.

I also have the entire quartet arrangement of Old Reinlender and have practiced the viola part (which is harder than the tune because it's mostly a rhythm part with lots of chopping). Before the pandemic, I was planning to work on it with a quartet I'd just started playing in, as a possible encore piece.

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ELCBK
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 @AndrewH -

There are quite a few ornaments in "Old Reinlender" - at least the recordings The Danish String Quartet produces are pretty clear sounding. 

How did you figure the ornaments out?  Could you just hear them clearly (I can't)?

Most of the recordings I'm learning from make it really hard to hear the ornaments clearly, sometimes there's a lot going on with other instruments, but hard for me to hear even in "Old Reinlender"

I'm still questioning whether I'm really hearing trills or turns in places and upper or lower mordents in other places.😳

I was telling Greg my brother sent me "Scandinavian Fiddle Tunes" (Vicki Swan) for Xmas, so I figured it might help me sort out these ornaments if I could see how & when they are notated. 

Turns out none of the tunes are ones I've played.  I'm not sure if even half the tunes have ornaments.  Couple places had "tr" for trill, otherwise all else is noted using auxiliary notes - seems mostly to indicate upper & lower mordents, maybe a few trills, but didn't see any rolls/turns noted (I better check closer). 

Having a terrible time figuring why they are placed where they are.😖

Probably my fault for feeling I didn't have to pay attention to where they are place in Irish & Scottish music, just took license to add them in where I felt.🙄

Btw, thanx for reminding me about The Danish String Quartet - almost forgot I wanted to learn "Vigstamoin" - at least I can hear most of these ornaments! (lol)

Vigstamoin

@GregW -

I just started learning about how to convert YouTube videos into MIDI form, but I'm not so sure using musescore is going to help me see what all these ornaments are I'm hearing. 

Do you think I'd be wasting my time trying? 

...I'm frustrated enough as it is. 

 

giphy.gif

 

Anyone know where to find more traditional Swedish and Norwegian sheet music? 

- Emily

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I wouldnt say its a waste of time.  You may be more productive slowing it down over different sections and trying to get them that way.  Just try and get as close as you can and work on it.  I think alot of times Ive set the bar incredibly high for myself  on some of this music though, especially for the amount of time Ive spent.  Not that I shouldnt aim for it but Ive gotten discouraged when I cant break through some speed barrier Ive set for myself listening to some track.  Try not to get frustrated.

Ive not heard of converting youtubes to midi so I cant help there.  Theres some software that comes bundled with presonus called melodyne that "can" convert audio to midi and does a pretty good job on individual instrument tracks provided they arent like say a guitar playing a chord.  But for something like a full performance audio mp3 of the type above it would juat be a sea of notes that are more confusing than helpful.  At least thats my experience.  

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@elcbk if you can give me a time stamp on where you are in the track ill see what i can hear and will send over to the software too..never know it may be helpful.  what song?  i have the danish string quartets old reinlender but wouldnt mind getting another track if it isnt that one.  pretty easy and quick on amazon so nit a problem.

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ELCBK
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@GregW -

Thanks Greg, I was only using "Old Reinlender" as a reference to Andrew - wondering how he dealt with the ornaments. 

I'm trying to get all the ornaments in "Marianna's Hambo" (above). 

I swear it sounds like they are snuck in with every few notes! 

Already hearing them a little more clearly within the last 24 hours - probably just because I made such a big deal about them, I've forced myself to listen harder.  I'm hearing something is different - assuming mordents (up or down)  vs.  trills/turns/rolls.  I'm still not really 100% certain about any of them, kind of on the edge (if that makes any sense) - my mind is racing at the moment.

It's overwhelming.

I was hoping to find an easier way to do this, but short of fully notated sheet music, I think you gave me good advice.  Maybe I should also try to write myself some notes while I'm listening (small section at a time) - just to reinforce what I'm hearing. 

I know I have to get the hang of how to sneak these things in because they really are integral to this genre.  May even help me with ornaments that aren't quite so obvious in the Irish music, also (gotta hope). 

Now that I know the main tune well (everything that's easily heard), I think it's just going to take a lot more listening.  If I can just make sense of the ornaments while I listen, I should be able to get to where I hear them in my head along with the melody - then I'll be all set.

I really hope I can get a better feel for these ornaments so I won't have so much trouble in the near future - this is exhausting. 

Time for the Ear Buds - Kevin's only going to put up with so much playing the same thing over & over. (lol) 

 

Btw, I was learning about using free software to convert a YouTube video to a WAV, then convert the wave to a MIDI - then I was going to see if musescore could pick up all the ornaments for me to see.  But, there's a lot going on in that video of "Marianna's Hambo" and I think the ornaments I seek are too faint/subtle to be clear.

Smiley Broke Apart Smiley

 

Thanks for putting up with my brain fog!

- Emily

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@elcbk with the whistle and maybe flute..?  playing melody too its hard to single out what the fiddle is doing.  Instead of trying to do the exact ornament, maybe insert a roll or the thing i call a cut wherver you hear ornaments and just roll with it...pun intended  :)   

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AndrewH
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I didn't try to replicate the ornaments exactly, and they aren't notated in the sheet music. But what I hear is mostly simple mordents and occasionally a trill or a tap.

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ELCBK
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@GregW , @AndrewH -

Thank you both, VERY MUCH! 

 

Besides your help, I did find a bit on Scandinavian Ornament in Swedish Fiddle Tunes  by Rowan Piggot (Amazon book preview). 

Really helped me to see what their Mordents, Trill and Roll (Dubbelslag) look like. 

I was surprised how short their basic trill is, same amount of notes as the roll -  makes sense my confusion at high speed. 

Think I'm on the right track! 

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1pUGd8xnjVQ/UgyuXadjR6I/AAAAAAAAAWo/R5lSTU-mFSw/s1600/tumblr_m5fh31HwYL1ro6d7po1_500.jpg

 

Unless Fiddlerman holds the key to all this? 

 

- Emily

Artist, "Louis Wain"

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ELCBK
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More on Swedish ornamentation -

According to Lena Jonsson in this interview with Darol Anger, there is no set places to embellish playing Swedish fiddle, but she shows a "trill" can be more than just a trill - variable pitch!  

Hmm Thinking Here Smiley

variable pitch sounds like our old Huey Rotor blades. (lol)

Darol Anger and Lena Jonsson

giphy.gif

 

...the helicopters I used to work on had "variable pitch" rotor blades - nothing musical. 

- Emily

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emily @elcbk you may like this episode.  at least checkout the tune at 24:50 ive always heard called paddys return but he calls it kitty lie over.  plays on hardanger.  also plays winter snow later on in the episode but i havent gotten that far into it yet.

https://blarneypilgrims.fireside.fm/64

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ELCBK
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I forgot to talk about the wonderful help I got with Nordic music at the April 2021 Fiddle Hell! 

It was virtual, but I attended workshops with some great musicians who were great teachers, as well! 

❤ Vidar Skrede taught tunes with variations from Rogaland, the Southwestern coast of Norway - and he was extremely generous in his help with understanding ornaments! 

❤ Lena Johnson taught a beautiful Swedish Polska - while the Sun was rising in Sweden! 

❤ Learned more Swedish tunes from Andrea Hoag!  

❤ Even Natalie Haas taught a Swedish Polska from her Cello!

Really enjoyed learning in this virtual format - with each workshop being recorded so we could revisit/reinforce all the information presented. 

https://www.fiddlehell.org/templates/yootheme/cache/fh_website_new_logo-a5b7a35a.png

 

Hope I can attend more Fiddle Hell workshops in November! 

- Emily

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