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Simple right?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (12 votes) 
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ABitRusty
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February 11, 2024 - 12:40 am
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I heard this song the other day for the first time.  I suspect its been around a while but I havent checked.  The guitar caught my ear right off then the violin part came in.  At first i thought..thats a neat way to use some simple playing of an instrument to add something musical.   But the more I thought about it Im leaning more to its not simple.   The tone is steady the whole way.  the timing doesnt change..the volume doesnt waiver much.   I think this is harder than it seems and would take a person thats tried to play violin to appreciate whats involved to do what this person is doing.   its what..2 notes played over and over?  how hard can that be. 😉🙂

thoughts?   in addition..isnt this a cool bluesy kinda song?  

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Jim Dunleavy
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February 11, 2024 - 3:09 am
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I agree with you. I've put percussion parts on some of my home recordings and keeping a steady rhythm with something as simple as a shaker or a tambourine is far more difficult than it has any right to be.

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Sasha
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February 11, 2024 - 10:41 am
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One thing to keep in mind on recordings (and even live performances if going through a PA system) is that there are effects being used, such as compression which evens out volume a lot.

I am not saying they are not playing steady and evenly, but compressions helps a lot to even out the minor volume variations that are going to happen. You have to be close though, it's not a miracle because it only evens out volume, not tone or timing. :)

And I do agree to a point, though I don't think it is so much that simple things are harder, there is just far less to hide any mistakes at all. It kind of reminds me of when I was young and in the martial arts. Though I mainly did fighting, I would occasionally enter forms/kata competition as well. One time I did something very different than the other competitors. Instead of doing the 'harder' brown belt and black belt katas I did the white belt form. And it was much the same. Every move had to be done perfectly, there was a lot less 'flash' to hide mistakes. I did end up taking first.

My final thoughts on simple parts as well, you still have to put the feel and musicality in it. Without that, it's still just notes. :)

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ABitRusty
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February 11, 2024 - 12:55 pm
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Jim, Ive looked at those percussion kits that have shakers and tambourines.  think it would be something to try.  Its an eye opener for me when working on or focusing on staying in time then going back and comparing to a click or time division how I drift.  it for sure is never a given 🙂

sasha, youre on to something.   Theres a good chance theyre using some compression or even some type of volume automation.  Sounds like they had a really close space too.  no room sound to me.  it sounds pretty tight. 

I just really like that rhythm it has.  a bit of a gallop.. seems like a triplett but then seems like a shuffle.  cant make up my mind.

Simple maybe a bad word..minimalist as far as what a fiddle or violin part could be vs what they chose to use.  think thats what is cool.  it added without being a focus or lead.

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ELCBK
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February 11, 2024 - 2:53 pm
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I was pleasantly surprised by the violin rhythm - thought it would change into something, but it just disappeared... then reappeared, like a specter. 😳

Have to admit, I definitely got sucked into (actually stuck in) the 'violin = melody' concept, even though I see folks who regularly comp violin rhythm in jazz, bluegrass, etc... they know this isn't so. 

Also hate to admit I lack the patience & discipline to stick to practicing bowing a steady 2-note rhythm, of any kind. 😔  I tried to make it part of my everyday practice (several times) - only seem to manage a few days before I quit.  It's hard enough for me to make sure I just practice 'something' everyday, but I do feel bowing rhythms (in general) should've been part of my everyday exercises from the start - like scales, or arpeggios. 

Really appreciate posts popping up that remind me to practice! 

Curious to see if Tracy Silverman will have another 'Strum Bowing' workshop at the April Fiddle Hell.  Christian Howes encourages a lot of rhythm bowing in his videos.

Btw... I've heard/seen some flawless rhythms done by looping.

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ABitRusty
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February 11, 2024 - 4:58 pm
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elcbk said...Btw... I've heard/seen some flawless rhythms done by looping

could be i suppose.  i wouldnt think it would be a 1or 2 measure loop though.  either way, the timing still has to be perfect or when it loops back on itself you could hear it.   thinking the part is either 8 or 16 bars.  

theres a place for loopers and one couldve been used in this I guess

I was just pointing out the part and thinking it could be a good thing to practice.  just some basic rhythmic type stuff with no worries about noting.  and in general sharing the song and how maybe we could pick up different ways to use the instrument.   thought it was unique.

as a counter to the other..what if it was a one take, no loop, no in mix adjustment piece that was played perfect straight through? 🙂  

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Sasha
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February 12, 2024 - 8:27 am
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The original video does not sound looped to me, there is enough subtle variation in it that wouldn't be there with a loop, at least not to my ears.

I really like how Matt Bell talks about rhythm playing and such. This is something I learned a long time ago as a guitarist: If you are playing in a band with a singer, you are going to be (or should be) playing rhythm 99% of the time.

Playing solos over everything is a good way to not get invited back, etc. As Matt says: knowing when not to play is what gets you paid. :)

Another role a violin can do in a song that isn't soling or rhythm is providing a pad as well for harmony or atmosphere.

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ABitRusty
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February 12, 2024 - 10:18 am
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@Sasha_1 said

"I really like how Matt Bell talks about rhythm playing and such. This is something I learned a long time ago as a guitarist: If you are playing in a band with a singer, you are going to be (or should be) playing rhythm 99% of the time."

is this one of the videos?   yeah like his approach.  he uses the helix and ive eyed that one..also, Have you seen the new kemper profiler player?  ive looked at these type multi effects type devices for a while but never have tried.  ive always liked the kemper tones, but just dont play electric guitar much if any now so havent went further.  

great video..some really good pointers

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Cajun
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February 12, 2024 - 10:25 am
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i remember a "hardest drum songs to play" video i watched a while back, guy doing the video was telling about a guy he knew who liked to poo-poo on Beatles stuff, mostly because of Ringo.  i forget which song, but the guy was like "he just plays this one thing for TWO MINUTES, how lazy and stupid!"

"$20 you can't do it"

dude tried and by like 45 seconds in having to keep perfectly on time with this one basic beat was already starting to kill him purely from the endurance.  barely made it the full song.

V V V  When all you have is one trick (so to speak), you gotta do it PEFRECTLY or it's gonna show

Sasha said
And I do agree to a point, though I don't think it is so much that simple things are harder, there is just far less to hide any mistakes at all.

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Sharon Begley

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SharonC
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February 12, 2024 - 3:52 pm
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As a drum student in my youth, part of playing percussion was maintaining a steady tempo throughout.  Often an important aspect judged in a tryout (for all-county, all-state bands, etc.,) was maintaining steady tempo while playing an etude that could go on for several minutes.  

In school band, percussionists would take turns on different instruments, so playing something like the bass drum or one of the “toys” (as we would call them, e.g., tambourine, triangle, woodblock, etc.,) could be just like this repetitive violin part. 

Learning to internalize steady tempo is a skill to practice, just like any other.  I know I’ve mentioned this before--counting out loud and using a metronome are good tools to practice this.

In this tune, I think part of the complexity is that the pattern is triplets in the 4/4 tempo (I’m only hearing one note—think it’s a D?).  Unlike an 8th note pattern, where the bowing would be:  

down up/down up/down up/down up

it is the triplet pattern, that has the emphasis alternating (and NOT accented, which makes it a little harder to maintain, I think):

down up down/up down up/down up down/up down up

Anyway, I agree, not easy smile  BTW, this is a neat tune

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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Sasha
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February 14, 2024 - 8:41 am
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@ABitRusty yes, that is him and his video.

I tried a Helix, it was okay, but I prefer my Axe FX III and FM3 from Fractal Audio. The Axe FX III is a beast of a processor and great in my studio. FM3 lighter weight portable foot pedal version. :)

I don't think I would go for a Kemper myself. Its amp stuff is great, but it does not have the effects that Axe FX, Helix, and others have. For a budget one I would take a serious look at Hotone Ampero. That thing is really impressive for around $300.

At any rate, any of those will get the sweet effects to make an electric fiddle a great pad or other interesting 'roles' in the mix.

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ABitRusty
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February 14, 2024 - 11:11 am
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Ill check those out.  

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ABitRusty
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February 14, 2024 - 4:21 pm
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thanks @Sasha_1 lol.. somehow looking at the FM3s  kempers, and all that led into squire telecaster baritones.. which i most certainly have to have and cant live without now.. 😉😏

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Sasha
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February 14, 2024 - 6:25 pm
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ABitRusty said
thanks @Sasha_1 lol.. somehow looking at the FM3s  kempers, and all that led into squire telecaster baritones.. which i most certainly have to have and cant live without now.. 😉😏

  

You quoted the wrong Sasha, but I found it, and glad. My work is done here now. :D

--

Spreading the G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) one person at a time!

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