FORUM

Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Violin Octave Strings with Viola bow?
Anyone try the Fiddlerman CF viola bow for this?
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Iridal
Member
Members
February 9, 2018 - 10:47 am
Member Since: December 8, 2015
Forum Posts: 6
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good morning! I was wondering if anyone here had any luck stringing up a set of violin octave strings, and what bow they ended up using. I'm stringing up one now and I'll test out the bows I have, but I hear a viola bow can get better results. Anyone use the Fiddlerman CF Viola bow by any chance?

I'll probably pick one up and give it a shot, just curious if anyone else had. 🙂

Avatar
damfino
my own little world
Members

Regulars
February 9, 2018 - 11:36 am
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1831
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've heard that viola bows do work best for them. I have a set of octave strings on one of my extra fiddles, but have only used it with my violin bow, adding extra pressure. I might get a cheap viola bow at some point if I decide to keep it strung up that way.

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
Iridal
Member
Members
February 9, 2018 - 11:42 am
Member Since: December 8, 2015
Forum Posts: 6
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well I ordered the FM viola bow, so I'll let you know how it goes.  🙂

I'm also thinking about buying a mid-range 14" viola to use for this instead of converting one of my violins permanently.  I'm putting the strings on a fiddle for now to see how I feel about it but if I really like it, I'll have to look at some adjustments.  They recommend a thicker viola bridge, viola soundpost, etc... at that point might as well get a 14" voila, right?

Avatar
damfino
my own little world
Members

Regulars
February 9, 2018 - 12:01 pm
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1831
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, for something that's supposed to be a fun and simple change, their recommendations don't sound fun and simple, haha. It sounds fine just being on my fiddle, so I don't see myself going to all that trouble with the sound post and bridge. Cheap viola bow maybe, but not all the other stuff, haha.

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
Iridal
Member
Members
February 9, 2018 - 12:22 pm
Member Since: December 8, 2015
Forum Posts: 6
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah I imagine its fiddle-dependent, like so much else in this pursuit.  If mine sounds fine I'm likely to leave it as well, but curiosity may get me to try the 14" viola at some point.

Avatar
damfino
my own little world
Members

Regulars
February 9, 2018 - 12:59 pm
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1831
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My fiddle holds up well (so far) with these strings. I like the sound it produces. I have two back up fiddles, an old German one (from around the 1920s) and my Fiddlerman Concert. My German one really sounds lovely on the D and G string, so I think it could have really played well with the octave strings, but I like it strung as a backup fiddle more, so I put them on the Concert. The Concert is a good little fiddle, so it can hold its own with the octave strings on it, but I think they would have shined more on the German fiddle.

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
February 9, 2018 - 5:31 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 544
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is suprisingly little load on the sound post, and it is all acting in compression.  As long as the sound post is perpendicular to the plates and is making good contact (the only way I know how to determine this is to remove the end pin and look), a standard violin sound post should be adequate.  It would be difficult to add anything with more diameter since getting it in the f hole is the deciding factor.

I looked into getting a set of these strings but decided it would be much cheaper to obtain the effect electronically.

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
August 30, 2018 - 3:10 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 331
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

... of course I was going to eventually have to try octave strings... of course.

Here are 4 bars from my Elements 2 book with lots of G string (really, the g-string) for the full "oaoww-oaoww" groan.

The violin was played by my son when he was 10ish so it's something like a 3/4 (31.25cm string length vs: 33cm standard 4/4 violin).

The sound is not just an octave lower but pretty mushy too. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the missing 1.75cm in string length is part of the problem? ... and/or the regular violin bow?

Gotta say, it's pretty fun to pull such a mellow sound. Like those soundtracks they play at the end of yoga class 🙂

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
August 30, 2018 - 9:17 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 544
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

At a minimum, I would use a bow with black horse hair and dark rosin.  A 4/4 violin would also help.

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
August 30, 2018 - 10:50 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 331
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks, @Irv. Dark rosin because it's grippier, I assume?

As for black horse hair, since having that work done on an old violin bow is about the same price as buying a beginner CF viola bow, which way would you lean?

Finally, yeah, eventually a 4/4 for those strings (or even a 14" viola) but first I'd like to figure out what I'm going to use it for.

For anyone out there who already has octave strings on an instrument, I'd be really interested to know how you use it. Just for a change up at home or can you play it in an ensemble (classical) or at music meet-ups?

Avatar
mookje
The Netherlands
Members

Regulars
August 31, 2018 - 7:17 am
Member Since: July 29, 2018
Forum Posts: 129
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@bocaholly I can’t help you with your questions but I love the low sound!

 Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass. It’s about dancing in the rain!!

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
August 31, 2018 - 8:01 am
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 331
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@mookje, theoretically, I love that low, cello-like sound too. Google "Esther Abrami, octave strings" if you want to hear someone making acoustically pleasing use of them.

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 31, 2018 - 12:32 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2607
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Me too, I like the sound of that @bocaholly !

I approached this from a different direction - I re-strung a 4/4 fiddle as a viola, using a C intended for a 5-string fiddle.

I invested about $5 in some real cheap piezo pickups, and then playing the viola through an octave dropper - yep, I have a chin-cello... LOL  Yeah, I know, never gonna sound like the real thing, but it's got the range - 

I've posted this in a couple of other threads on the forum, but here it is again if you haven't seen it - 

As it happens, I have a set of octave strings for violin, had them for about 3 months, but things have been too hectic here to actually find the time to try them out - soon though, very soon !  🙂

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
August 31, 2018 - 12:47 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 331
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Yeah, @billyg, I like the idea of having the full cello range but I am ultra reticent to throw in the bass clef to my burgeoning note reading skills.

How do you handle that little hurdle? Just play by ear, improvise or actually navigate is different clefs?

Since my goal is to be able to play with others (love chamber music) I suppose I'll have to dig in with the bass clef at some point to be able to play the cello parts (if anyone will have me with a chin cello.)

In the meantime, back to reality... my "perpetual motion" exercise awaits 🙂 

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 31, 2018 - 1:10 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2607
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@bocaholly - as regards bass clef (and indeed alto for that matter on viola) - I find it REAL difficult to "play" from sheet other than treble - although I can "read" it (clefs other than treble) in slow-time.    It may perhaps be the way I came into music - I never had a tutor of any sort, and never had (what I hear can be challenging to some) the association of a finger position on an instrument to a note on the stave.  The different clefs just give me an indication of "where to start" - this is real hard to explain....   I guess I started out at the age of 10 or so having been gifted an old piano accordion, then reading various library books on the fundamentals / physical basis of music - i.e. more about how sound is produced, how various notes are related to each other, how a stopped string vibrates and why, and what, overtones are generated - it has always interested me at that level.

Most of the pieces I play are relatively simple, and if I am faced with a new piece in a different clef, I'll sight read it without playing, and get the general idea and feel of the piece in my head.   I'll hum it to myself (in any key, that's not initially important) and it's only after that that I'll pick up the instrument and go to the intended key.

These days of course, in our more modern times, I'll sometimes put a new piece into MuseScore - and when I hear it in its intended key and mode, I just know where to go on the instrument...  Yeah - it's strange, I can't really describe it...

But yes indeed, if you want to play in an ensemble, it's probably essential to play from sheet using the appropriate clef.....  well... maybe..  pushing the limits of my experience on that one and it still comes down to how well you know the piece, how long it is and how complex it is...  🙂

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
August 31, 2018 - 1:45 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 331
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

BillyG said
...   I guess I started out at the age of 10 or so having been gifted an old piano accordion, then reading various library books on the fundamentals / physical basis of music -

... if I am faced with a new piece in a different clef, I'll sight read it without playing, and get the general idea and feel of the piece in my head.   I'll hum it to myself ...

At the age of 10, I was the girl who was told to move her lips in chorus 🙂 But hey, I figure there's more than one way to skin this cat. My new problem is that, with violin practice, I'm starting to hear the false notes (which I truly didn't as a kid) and they're pretty discombobulating 🙂

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
August 31, 2018 - 8:08 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 544
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi bocaholly (and others).  If you do not intend to play viola on a regular basis, I would get a less expensive CF viola bow with black horse hair (about $30 with shipping from China).  I have just found out about the use of imitation whale bone bow winding, which puts a little more weight toward the tip.  This may help as well.  I also like the look.

Lengthening string length on the base side would be a good thing for you with those octave strings.  Consider a harp style tailpiece.  

On the modern double string bass, the pattern of the pegs is reversed (like that of a left handed violin).  This lessens the peg box string angle before the nut on the low string (which has the largest diameter).

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: yellowdresses, Andrew Shumway, AndrewH, wtw
45 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming Reacher, Andrew, Prudence, Lajer, Lenicus, wookieman, Gil, MrWilf, Diana Ungaro Arnos, Longstride46, marta, bocaholly

Top Posters:

Mad_Wed: 2849

.: 2671

Fiddlestix: 2647

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Kevin M.: 1969

damfino: 1831

cdennyb: 1814

TerryT: 1726

Ferret: 1575

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 17355

Moderators: 0

Admins: 6

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 58

Topics: 7391

Posts: 92386

Newest Members:

sherrijl2, bettyepi60, claramz4, lillycg4, dorthyeg60, GustavoPhiva

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 13725, KindaScratchy: 1728, coolpinkone: 4141, BillyG: 2607, MrsFiddlerman: 0, Jimmie Bjorling: 0