FORUM

Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
My Journey with My Violin Since May 1716.
A probably unusual way to learn improvising via baroque play-alongs.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (6 votes) 
Avatar
Mark
Members

Regulars
October 30, 2018 - 8:11 am
Member Since: September 30, 2014
Forum Posts: 788
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
341sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Demoiselle,

Well played, I had never heard or considered a  recorder for jazz or baroque style of music before listing to your improvisations.

Thanks,

Mark

Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.

Albert Sammons

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
October 30, 2018 - 1:39 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
342sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Demoiselle said

....a very important part by Johann Mattheson (Handel's old Hamburger friend) which is very important to me. I have the reprint and constantly look up matter in Mattheson's book. Where he's talking about the organ he compares its tremulants to the vibrato of the human voice. He's like, "Like the human voice at certain times on long notes."

   

Johann Mattheson (Hamburger composer of operas etc., church organ player, harpsichordist, singer) touched another very interesting point in his 1713 book:

"....like a voice at certain times does, if it holds something (he means holding a long note) without trill."

Which is another perspective on the vibrato, as the final part of a vocal trill. I usually start a vocal trill by shaking my head a bit, this trill gets faster and ends with a vibrato. So the vibrato of the baroque voice is actually a trill and if you sing sustained vibrato, trills will will almost drown in it. At least trills will be more outstanding if I sing vibratoless. Which is the main reason why I try to avoid vibrato if I use vocal trills. Nonetheless a none-vibrato should never be forced. There is no argument against a mild vocal vibrato which just naturally comes. It will always sound different from operatic goat-like bleating. I sound very negative now, but an hysterical late-romantic opera vibrato really turns me of. It seems certain violinists try to imitate exactly this. Personally I feel like it has points if it comes to musical parody. Why not in a goat suit? If I sing in the style of a popular song of the mid-1930s I will have a strong vibrato of course. It was a very hysteric time, since the 1920s which tended to the eccentric a lot. A bizarrely mushy violin solo is a must in the 30s. I can't do that which is my downside. 

Come to shakes: In two places of my alto recorder playing I'm shaking the flute. During the early 2000s I read about shakes having been common during the 1600s and early 1700. I knew shakes from jazz and this information really excited me. I'm also doing one flute vibrato, but find shakes even sweeter sounding. The vibrato of wind instruments is just a voiceless vocal vibrato. So it's a good idea for wind players to also learn singing. Violin vibrato for me is no topic. I need the muscle power of my hands to manage all the other violinistic challenges, being a not too energetic type. I would never try to talk violin vibrato out of anybody. I just ask: "Do you think you have enough strength to do it?" Before it's going to be a painful struggle I will save my energy for more important lectures. I stress this to possibly help those who are unhappy because they are struggling with the violin vibrato technique. Knowing myself, the battery of my body helps a lot. To save my energy before my battery runs down completely and my practice hour ends with feeling sick, tired and depressed. Which is no precondition for progress.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
October 30, 2018 - 2:17 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mark said
Demoiselle,

Well played, I had never heard or considered a  recorder for jazz or baroque style of music before listing to your improvisations.

Thanks,

Mark  

In 1999 I used my jazz trombone for my first baroque experiments, doing funny things on a local open tv channel. Then I bought more and more CDs with baroque music and discovered the recorder was a very important solo instrument. Around 1700 the French flute (recorder) was very much more common than the German flute (transverse flute). The recorder had even the reputation of a love instrument!

doublekissdoublekissdoublekissdoublekiss

Today this is hard to understand for people because the recorder now has the reputation of a nastily shrill sounding infantile Christmas presentation accessory. But actually the recorder has a quite soft sound and if you play it very gently you may perhaps be able to imagine why it sort of was the sexy saxophone of the baroque generations. Here you can compare the two flute types. The recorder lady plays really-really with a lot of feeling. The transverse flute player here seems to be more on the cool side compared to that. Yes, I think baroque music went more to the cool side in the 1700s and had been more emotional in the 1600s and early 1700s. Like what happened to jazz, when it went cool in the 40s via bebop.

Well, in summer 1999 I payed my parents a visit to look for the alto recorder of my early high school days. It was still there. From that day on I improvised on the recorder playing along with CDs of Handel's Concerti Grossi to involve it in my tv show. My goal then was to be less parodistic and more authentic instead. That was how my odd yearning started to achieve realistic time travel. I think I managed to become part of the undead baroque people.

vampire29

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
October 30, 2018 - 2:31 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
344sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

What I really like in the above video is they even have a baroque guitar in the continuo (rhythm) section. Harpsichord plus cello or bass viol is common these days and meanwhile quite some have seen that the baroque lute was often part of it. But the baroque guitar is still pretty new to modern people. This is my chance because there are so many guitar playing people and some even love baroque music. I just hand them my chord sheets and say, "Yes you can do it, just like you back a folk or pop song." It's really not more difficult than that.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 30, 2018 - 8:07 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14601
345sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks for sharing your videos Demoiselle. Nice to see you enjoying what you do so much.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
October 31, 2018 - 6:55 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
346sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlerman said
Thanks for sharing your videos Demoiselle. Nice to see you enjoying what you do so much.  

Yes, I love it, although I'm constantly suffering from the terrible slave-driver inside me. I started late in my life and therefore push so hard. I know my fanaticism helps quite a bit although it may seem crazy to some people. LOL

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 31, 2018 - 7:44 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14601
347sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

LOL. Just don't suffer too much. You can control that slave driver if you have to. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 1, 2018 - 8:48 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fiddlerman said
LOL. Just don't suffer too much. You can control that slave driver if you have to. 🙂  

No, I have something very cute.

I really have to share this because it shows how it is possible to cast a big show tune with little effort.

Yesterday I said to myself, "It's time that you play the whole theme song of that Molière thing, even if it hurts!" (That was the slave driver.) I had been improvising over the 4 bars of the chaconne main part a lot. Yesterday I prepared the chords of Lullies complete introduction, to really sound awful at the violin after that.

Today I'm still far away from perfection, but it sounds better and the cuteness has already started:

Lully does not ad an unisono recorder in this part, although it would be very Lully-like. I don't have an orchestra, so to create a fuller sound I just did it. And find that very cute. There is one trill which is impossible on the recorder, I didn't consider that while playing the violin part. Never mind.

So this is just violin, alto recorder and organ. I'd like to ad percussionist and cello to it and present the whole comedy on a stage. Instead of the organ possibly two acoustic guitars. Molière's & Lully's LE BOURGEOIS GENTILHOMME. If I mostly play the recorder it's also possible to have two violins in other places of this play. At times the cello can interrupt the bass line and form a considerable string section together with the two violins. Well, I have to practice a lot before that show can start.....

ostrich-chase

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 1, 2018 - 3:06 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14601
349sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Well, just keep on being creative. Your life will be fuller for it. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 1, 2018 - 3:22 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
350sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlerman said
Well, just keep on being creative. Your life will be fuller for it. 🙂  

This Molière comedy must be brought out on stage! I tried an accordion and came to the conclusion, that's it. It is a bit crazy but that serves the Molière style perfect. People consider the accordion a typically French instrument. So there......

violin, alto recorder, accordion, drum.

That crazy little amateur project must run on stage! With singers, dancers and acting persons....

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 2, 2018 - 5:43 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
351sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I forgot the choir. On the whole a chance to meet a lot of new people. I'm not happy with just digital play-alongs, I want to make music with people.

exactly

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 2, 2018 - 9:24 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
352sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Demoiselle said

This Molière comedy must be brought out on stage! I tried an accordion and came to the conclusion, that's it. It is a bit crazy but that serves the Molière style perfect. People consider the accordion a typically French instrument. So there......

violin, alto recorder, accordion, drum.

That crazy little amateur project must run on stage! With singers, dancers and acting persons....  

Change:

In the last phrase, where the recorder plays the notes

F# |  G-- A H(trill with A) A G G---

the violin trills G with F# and still ends on G

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 9, 2018 - 6:15 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This is groovy, because the accordion grooves so much. I'm really surprised what accordion makes out of Marin Marais' SONNERIE. Well, I assumed accordion would sound somehow well, but not that great. And therefore I got into sort of state of exaltation while playing the violin to this accordion. Looks like accordion is great as backing instrument for me.

I presented this title since 2016, but actually it was too tough on me then. While practicing it with an organ background I realized it got much better and decided to try accordion.

Sonnerie de Sainte-Geneviève du Mont de Paris -- by Marin Marais

It's all improvisation, so I don't play the original subject. Though I have started to also play Marais' original melody in the original key D minor. This here is E minor for a change and I like it a lot.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Shane "Chicken" Wang
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
November 9, 2018 - 7:22 pm
Member Since: October 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 280
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
354sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Mark said
Demoiselle,

Well played, I had never heard or considered a  recorder for jazz or baroque style of music before listing to your improvisations.

Thanks,

Mark  

I played recorder and never thought about putting the recorder in front of an audience even though my main instrument was sax. It sounded fantastic.

 

@Demoiselle depending on when you were in nawlins, I'm Shane Wang. aka Shane Chicken Wang. Dont tell no one, It's a secret.

Avatar
Mark
Members

Regulars
November 9, 2018 - 7:52 pm
Member Since: September 30, 2014
Forum Posts: 788
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
355sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

I agree wholeheartedly, the accoridan and the violin go very good together on that piece of music.

 

Thanks, 

Mark

Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.

Albert Sammons

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
November 9, 2018 - 8:57 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 654
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
356sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Demoiselle It's really audible that you're loving this instrument combo. It's contagious. blink 

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 10, 2018 - 3:36 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
357sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

bocaholly said
@Demoiselle It's really audible that you're loving this instrument combo. It's contagious. blink   

It is contagious although I recorded this rather late yesterday, when my arms were a bit worn out. When I played this without microphone running it was better. But here you still hear how the accordion is pushing me -- in the middle I seem a little tired but where it goes back to minor I find new energy.

Loving this violin-accordion combo is a very new realization this week. My brother plays accordion and I was always like, "Yes, maybe but it's not an authentic baroque instrument." On the other hand I always loved irony too and using the accordion as micro church organ seems very intriguing. Good ol' father Handel doing his organ concerto thing at the accordion -- very funny idea. This is just my old Yamaha synthesizer keyboard, so it must sound even better with real and really good accordion. A rather heavy accordion with a full sound.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 10, 2018 - 3:47 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
358sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

I feel like adding this point: This SONNERIE chord progression by Marais is merciless! It constantly pushes you ahead, there's no moment where you can rest. In most other pieces I play I can always retreat to slow, sentimental phrases which don't waste so much energy. The SONNERIE is a good indicator to see whether I have gained some more strength. I need stronger arms to express myself on the violin! Yes, very-very slowly my arms are getting used to this beautiful kind of torture. LOL

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Berlin, Germany
Members

Regulars
November 10, 2018 - 4:05 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 569
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
359sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Mark said
I agree wholeheartedly, the accoridan and the violin go very good together on that piece of music.

 

Thanks, 

Mark  

It happened a few times over years, that I came into a subway station and made big eyes because there was an accordion player who sounded like a full church organ. If it's a big and expensive accordion, with many options of registration and you play it in a church-like hall the result is amazing. And this kind of 'organ' is very present, very close to you. Whereas in churches I tend to feel like climbing into the pipes because the sound seems to come from too far away.

My brother plays accordion and thinks about teaming with a violinist. I always answered, "Why not a clarinet player?" Yes, clarinet and accordion also go together well, but violin and accordion is a very fascinating combo. Now I really understand my brother's idea. Well, he lives far away in Cologne (Köln), so we can hardly play together.

My violin is a 3/4 violin, made for right-handed players, though I play it left-handed. As I felt she was the best in the shop of all 3/4 violins I tried and the luthier agreed. I prefer Obligato strings together with Eudoxa E string. Self-made bow, weight: 24 g / 0.85 oz

Avatar
Mark
Members

Regulars
November 10, 2018 - 7:42 pm
Member Since: September 30, 2014
Forum Posts: 788
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
360sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Cologne, I was there 20 years ago looking at some Elhouse equipment we were thinking about buying for an extrusion press that I was the maintenance superintendent over.
Very nice town back then.

Mark

Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.

Albert Sammons

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 424
Currently Online: Gordon Shumway, MoonShadows
97
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today rsmith6322
Upcoming Ferret, HDuaneaz, vibaviattigala, zpilot, Rafael Gonzales, ACDSherlockian, NiloiV, jose6ph, Kody
Top Posters:
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2673
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Kevin M.: 1969
damfino: 1933
cdennyb: 1814
TerryT: 1726
Ferret: 1575
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 26129
Moderators: 0
Admins: 8
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 58
Topics: 7979
Posts: 99484
Newest Members:
Maksimcic, rubykj4, jamieiu11, Thomaskbmok, Trumpnv, SedasiNaw
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 14601, KindaScratchy: 1737, coolpinkone: 4169, BillyG: 2963, MrsFiddlerman: 1, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, SimplePressHelp: 0, peopleshost: 0