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CF Bows 🤯 More Dreaded INDECISION!
...your thoughts?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (20 votes) 
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ELCBK
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June 10, 2022 - 6:39 pm
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Two more bows on their way to me, now!

...getting very exciting - down to the nitty gritty! 

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SharonC
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June 11, 2022 - 11:57 pm
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@ELCBK  Cool--what are you trying on this time?

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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ELCBK
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June 12, 2022 - 2:18 am
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https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9e/1f/e4/9e1fe4ebbd57ce3171ccc4b38f138a17--curiosity-killed-the-cat-satisfaction.jpg

 

@SharonC -

Trying the round stick version of the Arcus P5 & P6. 

I've heard great things about the P6, no clue if I'll notice enough of a difference to make it worth it to me. 

Hoping for a little broader/fuller(?) sound than I got from the Octagonal stick. 

- Emily

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ELCBK
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June 15, 2022 - 12:35 am
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Well, the 2nd pair of Viola bows was delivered this evening! 

My 1st impressions: 

  • the round stick Arcus P5 & P6 BOTH have a broader sound than the octagonal stick 
  • maybe lost too much of the focused 'clarity' - that I liked in the octagonal P4 
  • the round sticks don't feel as light in my hand - it's the balance that's different 
  • Arcus should take a comfort lesson from Codabow - there's absolutely NO chamfer/beveled edge to the frog, where the thumb rests against it 
  • I may have to take a 2nd look at the octagonal version

Now, I have to give myself time with these.

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Fiddlerman
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June 16, 2022 - 12:13 pm
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Following this. 😁

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ELCBK
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June 22, 2022 - 4:04 am
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Just great. 🤨  

I've been trying these 2 new bows almost a week, now. 

Against my better bank account judgement, I'm really falling for the more expensive of the 2 - the P6, and I've deliberately blocked the cost out of my mind, because I didn't want that to factor into my decision! 

Definitely more volume with less effort and a MUCH fuller/richer sound from all strings/pitches with the Round P6... I'm just not completely sold on the balance/agility.   The P5 balance feels worse than the P6 and it doesn't handle/feel or work with me as good.

Just might be deceiving myself, but I distinctly remember the impression I had playing the Octagonal P4 - light as a feather, but also effortless to engage the strings... just not as broad/full in sound as I want. 

I want the sound of the P6, but the agility and balance of the Octagonal P4.

Maybe wishful thinking, looking for a bow with such broad capabilities, but I'm ready for a partner I can DANCE on ALL 5 strings with, not meek & mild, but capable of every emotion I can conjure! 

🤔... I watched this interesting video that talks mostly about Baroque Bows - has me really thinking that I'm probably chasing after a non-existent modern bow that has some spring, but also acts like a Baroque bow. 

...and yes, I had considered Baroque bows before I started trying anything out - and I had not seen this video. 

 

 

My playing IS really noticeable better now with my CF Fiddlerman Weave bow!  I'm aware it feels a little heavier, but I think by playing the other bows it has made me push myself, seeking the same sound as the other bows - better, but doesn't engage as easily & the sound quality just isn't there... afraid I simply won't be happy with this as my main bow, anymore.

 

Image Enlarger

ALMOST THERE! 

...leaning heavily toward trying another Arcus Octagonal bow.  

- Emily 

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Mouse
June 23, 2022 - 8:25 am
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@ELCBK This has been a real interesting topic. Funny how different violists/violinists/cellists react differently to different bows, and how different violas, or violins or cellos react differently to bows. 

I think those looking for bows should read this. Your observations are definitely valuable and helpful to everyone. Other violists/violinists/cellists may not be looking for the same qualities as you are in bows, but, the thought process and trial you are describing are an excellent tutorial and thank you for sharing this. 

Funny, I bought an Arcus bow for my warm sounding viola. It is lovely. I recently traded my warm violin in for a different warm violin (made by the same semi-local luthier as the violin) and the next week traded my Horst John (spelling might be wrong) bow to the same Arcus bow model I use for my viola, but in violin version. 

I am very happy with my brighter Fiddlerman Concert Deluxe violin and Soloist viola and the Fiddlerman hybrid bows I use with those, so none of those will be changed.

Are you going to get the P4 again and play it with the P6 in a trial period? I know that earlier you said you didn't want to be spending too much time trying bows.

Again, this is a really interesting topic and very educational. It will be interesting to read what you decide on and why it was won over. 

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

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Gordon Shumway
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June 23, 2022 - 8:58 am
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ELCBK said

 

My playing IS really noticeable better now with my CF Fiddlerman Weave bow!  

  

I have been warning about this for a while. You and I are both beginners. I will have been playing for 4 years in October. Beginners need Middle of the Road competent equipment and the patience to stick with it.

Is it too soon to ask for a summary of this thread?

It seems to be as follows: -

You were playing a CF FM Weave and weren't happy and auditioned better bows. That process lasted so long that you noticeably improved in the use of your CF FM Weave?

When you compare two bows, they can have "noticeable differences", but that doesn't make them important differences. My two bows are a Coda GX and a Delille Hybrid. The noticeable, but tiny, difference is, the hybrid makes a more direct, less warm sound than the GX. But, if I were to sell the GX and stick with the hybrid, I wouldn't notice the difference after a day, and in a year's time my playing would have changed anyway.

I wanted the balance close to the Frog, so I bought a GX. I have no idea where the Delille's balance is. Not far from that of the GX as far as I can tell.

If you simply want the balance point close to the frog and Fiddlerman has one like that, and it's cheaper than a GX, then just buy it. You'll change your mind in a year's time anyway, but at least you can start saving money ready for then.

Andrew

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ELCBK
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June 23, 2022 - 5:29 pm
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@Mouse -

Funny, I bought an Arcus bow for my warm sounding viola. It is lovely. I recently traded my warm violin in for a different warm violin (made by the same semi-local luthier as the violin) and the next week traded my Horst John (spelling might be wrong) bow to the same Arcus bow model I use for my viola, but in violin version.  

I didn't know you had a Arcus CF bow - which one? 

...thought you had bought an Arcos Pernambuco bow. 

 

@Gordon Shumway -

You were playing a CF FM Weave and weren't happy and auditioned better bows. That process lasted so long that you noticeably improved in the use of your CF FM Weave? 

SURE!  3 weeks total, plus a week in between trials - plenty of time to improve, because I was actively trying to get my FM CF Weave bow to sound & act like the better bows. 

Is it too soon to ask for a summary of this thread?

Thought I had been summarizing as I went along. (lol) 

1.) The Fiddlerman VIOLIN CF & CF Weave bows are EXCELLENT bows to start with (I've used them for 3 years)! 

2.) Hearing & feeling differences in sound & playability between my 5-string Violin and my 5-string VIOLA, may have sped up my reason to search for a new bow.  

3.) I was happy to find it was possible that a light bow could give me the sound I want from my lower strings - on a larger instrument. 

4.) The 4 VIOLA bows I've recently tried (Codabow Joule, Arcus P4 Octagonal, P5 & P6 Round) have showed me I can get cleaner elements of sound, with less effort from them.  

5.) Sound clarity & quality ranks as a high priority for me, then balance & agility in my hand & fingers ranks a VERY close 2nd. 

 

Close, but just haven't found the combination of these qualities I'm searching for, yet. 

...also, in between home trials, I tried to be content using only my FM CF Weave bow - ended up being depressing.

 

Please keep in mind, I've been playing my 16" 5-string VIOLA long enough that it seems nothing more than a Fiddle to me, now - and that's how I want to play it.  BUT, the strings are definitely longer than a full size Violin and the string spacing is wider - and THAT makes a noticeable difference when bowing. 

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Mouse
June 23, 2022 - 5:53 pm
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I didn't know you had a Arcus CF bow - which one? 

...thought you had bought an Arcos Pernambuco bow. 

Oh, Yea, you are talking an Arcus CF bow. Mine is an Arcos pernambuco. Different beasts. My bad. 

I am still enjoying this topic, though.

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

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Gordon Shumway
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June 24, 2022 - 12:53 am
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ELCBK said

Is it too soon to ask for a summary of this thread?

Thought I had been summarizing as I went along. (lol)  

  

No offence, but your threads quickly become gif-and-video-laden psychedelic road trips of multiple fonts and colours, and any information they contain is hard to find and a very slow read. It's kind of cute - i'm not criticising, but as sources of information they can be a bit impenetrable, especially if it is essential to watch all the videos to know what you are writing about.

Andrew

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ELCBK
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June 24, 2022 - 5:29 am
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@Gordon Shumway -

...be thankful I'm not the web page designer. 😳 

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ELCBK
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June 27, 2022 - 7:07 pm
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Hate to have to do it, but sending these last 2 home-trial-bows back, tomorrow. 🙁 

I was really getting attached to the Arcus P6 Viola bow - it's not out of the running, yet.  

🤔 ...now I'm obsessed with the possible magic a P6 octagon stick version might provide. 

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Mouse
June 27, 2022 - 7:37 pm
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😂😂😂😂 This is so much fun to follow along with. 

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

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Gordon Shumway
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June 29, 2022 - 4:11 pm
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In the meantime Coda have introduced a new bow - the Escent, to add to your indecision. https://www.codabow.com/products/ecsent

Andrew

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Mouse
June 29, 2022 - 4:26 pm
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Ah, yes, let's make the decision even harder, LOL 😁😂😂😂😂

🐭

The Bumblebee Flies!

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ELCBK
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June 29, 2022 - 10:39 pm
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I do know exactly what I want to hear & feel, now - already tried the Codabow Viola Joule instead of the Escent, because 2 people I know preferred the Joule over the Escent. 

...idk, the Viola Escent bow might be my last resort. 

It's just I haven't been able to find anyone who could tell me, with 1st hand experience, they feel the Escent produces much better sound & feels much better to play than the Joule - otherwise, I would jump to try it! 

If I'm not thrilled with one of the next 2 Arcus Viola bows, I'm feeling hard pressed to pay for any heavier bow that only partially satisfies me. 

I do think I'm close to finding what I want, but 'close' already means MUCH more expense than I originally figured I'd need to spend.

There's the possibility that my taste just exceeds what I'm willing to spend for a Viola bow and I may have to reassess the possibility of a better Violin bow than I currently own - as an alternative. 

...or I could just put my money toward remodeling our house. 😖 

- Emily

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Gordon Shumway
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I missed the fact that you mentioned the escent on page 1. Normally I do string searches in threads before mentioning something that might be a new idea.

Andrew

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ELCBK
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June 30, 2022 - 11:17 am
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So, nobody saw the video on the Baroque Violins & Bows? 

Think I might be going Baroque - the video said the Baroque violin was supposed to sound colorful without vibrato and the bows were "meant for speaking", engage easily and more agile.  💖💖💖

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/83/39/1043950368-singing-cat.jpg

 

 

I think it's possible to find that with the Arcus Octagonal P6 Viola bow. 

...getting excited, again!

- Emily

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Gordon Shumway
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The violist who sits next to me in our community string orchestra has a baroque (style) bow in his case.

Andrew

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