FORUM

Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Differences in Violin Makes
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
February 12, 2019 - 11:54 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 250
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So Im confused on all the different makes and styles of violins available now.  For instance, there is a Lord Wilton, a Cannone, the Red violin (cant remember the exact name) and so forth.. I understand whats out there are copies of famous violins but were measurements different on each?  Different wood tops and or backs, different bracing?  In the guitar world for instances as you move up through say Taylors line of guitars each series is made with certain tops and backs so once you get it they usually dont change.  Is there a cheat sheet to wade through and understand the differences other than this one has this name because it looks like such and such famous violin?  Or did current builders actually take measurements or use old plans from the famous luthiers to build current production violins?  Im looking to upgrade. In fact Im on the list for a demo video with fiddlerman.  In the end it probably doesnt matter Im just curious about the tech spec sorta thing if there is such a thing.  Probably secret sauce though 🙂  But any insight would be appreciated.

Happy Fiddling!

Greg

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 1:48 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 437
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

With the famous violins, the internal structure is identical, but the measurements are slightly different and the shapes of the tops and backs vary a little. Here's an article that mentions the evolution in the shapes of Stradivari's own violins over time.

http://darntonhersh.com/a-viol.....tradivari/

With modern-day copies at the workshop level or higher, I would assume luthiers copy the dimensions and shapes. But that may not always be true with factory instruments; many factories may use a standard pattern and simply varnish the violins differently to match the appearance of the famous violin being copied.

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 5:58 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 573
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's a nice idea but I've never seriously thought about buying one, as you'd have to have all dimensions the same as the original, including all of the wood thickness profiling. So all internal and external dimensions. Some kind of holographic laser measuring device would be nice. But then a luthier would have too little to do, as by then some kind of CNC machine would carve all the wood. Maybe that happens already, no idea, just musing. And of course you'd need to know Stradivari's secret varnish formula. I NEED MORE ANCHOVY OIL!devil-violin

Andrew

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
February 13, 2019 - 10:33 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14466

So when these makers made their violins back in the day, they were made by plate tuning and feeling. They did not try to create each and every violin exactly the same. Some makers were more consistent.
The nicknames are not really that important IMO. The maker, wood selection and quality are way more important. Obviously one can not deviate in design and graduation too much without affecting sound quality but these instruments are close in both graduation and dimensions anyway.
The nicknames are only relevant because those violins are so successful that they were purchased and played by great players.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
February 13, 2019 - 10:58 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2915
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

GregW said
..... In the guitar world for instances as you move up through say Taylors line of guitars each series is made with certain tops and backs so once you get it they usually dont change. .....

Happy Fiddling!

Greg  

ROFL - so sorry @GregW - I'm afraid the mere mention of Taylor Guitars brings this back to mind, every time.... ( I own one ) -

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 10:58 am
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1130
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This topic was discussed at length under the “violin metrics” thread.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 11:54 am
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 250
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

BillyG..humor appreciated!  Makes day enjoyable.  Im suspecting that singer didnt like taylor anyway 😉

Gotcha Irv I will search through those!

Andrew I read the article.  Interesting to me on the history involved. But its given me another internet rabbitt hole to venture into.  Heading there after this...lol

Still not quite understanding all the branding and how one vs another gets a name and the other doesnt.  Ill read through more of the forum postings and see whats there.  Its all just curiosity stuff anyway.  🙂

Thanks all,

Greg

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 12:14 pm
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 573
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fiddlerman said
when these makers made their violins back in the day, they were made by plate tuning and feeling. They did not try to create each and every violin exactly the same.  

Yes, I think this is the most salient point.

Andrew

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 12:23 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 437
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My impression (and I may be wrong) is that Strad copies commonly replicate the external dimensions only, not the plate thicknesses, because every piece of wood is necessarily different.

As for Stradivari's "secret"... I'm increasingly in the camp of Joseph Nagyvary, who concludes that the sound of old Italian violins was merely a result of the way lumber was typically transported at the time: logs were tied into rafts and floated down rivers, spent a lot of time in water, and had minerals deposited in the wood. Nagyvary has had impressive results with wood salvaged from the bottom of Lake Michigan. His best violins sound remarkably like Guarneris -- they're even indistinguishable with FFT analysis.

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 12:31 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 250
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Gordon Shumway said

Yes, I think this is the most salient point.  

Thanks Gordon and fiddlerman...I didnt pay close enough attention to the plate tuning statement and should have.  Glad you posted that Gordon.  Thats where the specs answer will be Im suspecting along with some of the history that Andrew pointed out.  Interesting stuff to me how all these instruments came to be.

Avatar
bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
Members

Regulars
February 13, 2019 - 1:19 pm
Member Since: July 8, 2018
Forum Posts: 649
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

AndrewH said
My impression (and I may be wrong) is that Strad copies commonly replicate the external dimensions only, not the plate thicknesses, because every piece of wood is necessarily different.

As for Stradivari's "secret"... I'm increasingly in the camp of Joseph Nagyvary, who concludes that the sound of old Italian violins was merely a result of the way lumber was typically transported at the time: logs were tied into rafts and floated down rivers, spent a lot of time in water, and had minerals deposited in the wood. Nagyvary has had impressive results with wood salvaged from the bottom of Lake Michigan. His best violins sound remarkably like Guarneris -- they're even indistinguishable with FFT analysis.