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Kaplan Amo
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GregW
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August 4, 2019 - 8:30 pm
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Put some Kaplan Amos on today.  I requested the tailpiece that requires standing on your head and using toothpicks to secure the strings in the fine tuner locking groove when I bought the violin.  Shouldve went with what they suggested which was the composite tailpiece.  I think the composite was suggested because the fine tuners adjust synthetic strings better not anything to do with string installation though. If I fed the strings from the bottom of the tailpiece the colored thread was too thick to pull up through the groove.  The ball end just kept popping out.  Finally went from the top and somehow was able to use a toothpick and push the string into the groove so it would stay locked.  Might be the way the thread on these particular strings was wrapped...OR plain ol operator error.  Anyway.. They sound like new strings.  The G seems to have a little more ummph or growl and the e maybe softer with a nice ring. It has a nice sound.  I can't remember what my old strings sound like now other than they were starting to feel muted so can't say more in the way of comparison :/ 🙂 the violin does seem to vibrate more when playing but Id say most new strings would do that.  Hopefully they'll settle in ok.  For the price I'm not sure if I shouldve just went the zyex route, but Ive been wanting to try these so curiosity quenched.

That is all.  Over...

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cid
August 4, 2019 - 8:53 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
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I was wanting to try them on my violin. Since I lost the violin instructor and am not taking cello lessons, I have been paying attention to cello strings, i did buy some Kaplan strings for my cello. Haven't put them on yet, got them Friday, waiting for the current strings to wear out. Hope that happens soon. I am not a fan of them.

I have other strings to try in my vioin before I buy any more, i have a package of Zyex and Fiddlerman to use before I buy any more.

Let us know how you like them. I am really curious. The write up for the Amo sounds like what I like to hear from my violin.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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August 4, 2019 - 10:26 pm
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@GregW .  A photo of your tailpiece solution would be appreciated.  I saw a photo once in a parent’s guide for violins which showed the string ball ends supported on the upper surface of a tailpiece (no clue as to which book and I never could find again).  Your remedy sounds similar.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
August 4, 2019 - 10:42 pm
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@GregW 

I requested the tailpiece that requires standing on your head and using toothpicks to secure the strings in the fine tuner locking groove when I bought the violin. 

What? I tried googling odd violin tailpieces in a variety of ways but kept seeing normal ones. What kind of tailpiece is it? I can’t picture it.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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GregW
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August 4, 2019 - 10:53 pm
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@Irv and @cid it is similar to a hill.  I'm sure I made it harder than need be but I did try suggeations in this video.  The smaller notch or channel you see was so narrow on mine that the strings wouldn't pull through once it reached the threaded part close to the ball.  Had to apply pressure with a toothpick ( just something I decided to use since wood and about the correct size.) To push string into slot.  Probably a better way but its what I did.

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cid
August 5, 2019 - 7:21 am
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What is the purpose of the more difficult tailpiece, in non-technical terms? Does it really make that big of whatever difference it does make? Just wondering.

I guess I am just wondering why this tailpiece would be better, especially given it is iffy for some of lower register strings to actually fit the small slot allowed for the ball end string to go.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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GregW
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August 5, 2019 - 9:05 am
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cid said

What is the purpose of the more difficult tailpiece, in non-technical terms? Does it really make that big of whatever difference it does make? Just wondering.

I guess I am just wondering why this tailpiece would be better, especially given it is iffy for some of lower register strings to actually fit the small slot allowed for the ball end string to go.

  

I just wanted to try it out and it was easier to have it installed when I ordered the violin.  I had gotten something about them in my head from reading internet articles probably.  No real world experience to base any type of desciin on.  Just wanted to start off with one on my new violin.

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cid
August 5, 2019 - 11:00 am
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Gotcha.  I do that sometimes. 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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August 5, 2019 - 4:01 pm
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Thanks for the response, @GregW .  I will actively avoid the purchase of that tail piece.  

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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GregW
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August 5, 2019 - 5:24 pm
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@Irv  no problem.  And to be fair its the fine tuners not so much the tailpiece...which isn't a hill brand just style.  Its not the exact one in the video.  They suggested going with composite since I wanted 4 tuners but I insited.  Moral...listen to the experts.  But...I could have just been overly cautious when trying to get strings to set.   I'm sure its a great tailpiece when used in the right application also..to be honest the pegs work greaton the soloist and stay in tune.  Very seldom are any adjustmenta needed except e and then sometimes A string.   The G and d hold pretty steady.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
August 5, 2019 - 6:59 pm
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@GregW - Which tailpiece do you have?
With the removable fine tuners, it's common to have to speed the forks to get the string in between. They come too tight.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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GregW
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August 5, 2019 - 7:16 pm
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@fiddlerman thinking maybe it is called pusch...does that sou d right?  Good to know though and thanks.  What do you use to spread the forks?  I was afraid to get too rough with them.

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Fiddlerman
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August 5, 2019 - 7:31 pm
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I remember the pusch tailpieces. We don't sell them anymore as we feel they are a bit steep.
I use the tip of a soundpost adjuster.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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GregW
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August 5, 2019 - 7:56 pm
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Fiddlerman said
I remember the pusch tailpieces. We don't sell them anymore as we feel they are a bit steep.

I use the tip of a soundpost adjuster.

  

Thanks!  I think at the time you were out of the other style so you swapped with this one free.  Its good just wasn't familiar with having to spread forks so it makes sense now.  Thanks again!

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GregW
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December 11, 2019 - 10:21 pm
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I finally tired of the Amoos.  one thing I noticed about them over the last 5 months is it was VERY easy to get a squeak on the e string when crossing to it.  They also seemed to muddy up the soloist so I won't be putting them back on that violin.  They might work on the other fiddle I have that likes the zyex set.  Since I haven't been at this long and just to see how they would sound 1 time I put on a set of obligatos.  To me on this particular violin they sound like a mix of the vision and zyex.  so far perfect and what I was thinking the Amo's would be.  The Obligato$ sound more...open?  but still darker or throaty sounding..words..how to put.  The Amo's were dark but went in that direction to much on the soloist in my opinion. and that e string did not work when  paired with the violin and me.  I have yet to squeak on the new set.  so there...more string talk opinions from the novice. birthday_balloon just thought Id share..especially to you that have a soloist and are ready for a string change and have considered obligatos. They're me approved.

And I didn't have the problems with the tailpiece I had when I started this topic above.  So good times here.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 12, 2019 - 9:37 am
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I test 30-40 violins a day at Fiddlershop and the E strings whistle is something that can be solved. Often it can be eliminated by loosening the sound post. An E string will whistle when it doesn't vibrate quickly enough. Response time is inhibited by too much tension perhaps, or something else.
Sometimes we solve the problem by reshaping the seating in the nut. Another way of solving the issue is to change the gauge of the E string. We have great success with the Lenzner 26G.
That being said, a tightly set soundpost has other advantages such as power, but everything with our instruments is about balance. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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GregW
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December 12, 2019 - 10:12 am
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@fiddlerman  I didn't have a whistle with the visions or the new strings just the Amo's so I don't think its the violin or anything.  It might be how I wound the string or maybe how the end was attached in the fine tuner maybe.  its not a problem now but I'll keep in mind to look for what would keep string from responding if the whistle comes back.  could string touching the  inside of the pegbox cause that?

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
December 12, 2019 - 10:14 am
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Interesting - I've "researched" the effect as well, and - for those interested in the physics of the issue and the "why" it happens and what causes it - it's down to the fact that the string being bowed enters a torsional vibration state rather than a lateral vibration state.  I found that with the Kaplan Amo E ( and indeed other E strings ) - but equally "forewarned is forearmed" and although not always 100% successful, with "decisive bowing" when passing onto the open E (although that may NOT be what's wanted in the piece being played) the whistle can be avoided and the string will ring normally.   Here's one of the papers (it's a .pdf) that describe the physics of this - 

https://vsapapers.org/index.ph.....nload/3/4/

** EDIT ** I make no apologies for being such a geek !   🙂

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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GregW
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December 12, 2019 - 10:34 am
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@Billyg ..thanks.  I read the intro and conclusion and from that gathered this..  I also need to be thinking about my attack if slurring from A to e on a down bow.  I wonder now if I had experimented with detunings say Gdgd if the whistle would have been as common.  and no apologies expected! Im glad you post these type of items.

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BillyG
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December 12, 2019 - 11:05 am
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@GregW - indeed "the attack" ( or in my post "decisive bowing" ).

Early on in my playing I found a similar situation (nothing to do with whistling) when playing on the G ( or better said, moving down onto any note on the G string ) -being the heaviest and least responsive  - "decisive bowing" was demanded to really make it sound and ring properly.  It's automatic now of course, and in a strange way it's the sort of thing that is just retained in the memory.   Question me about moving onto the G in 5 years time and I'd probably say - "what's the difference, you just play it like any other string?" - LOL - and of course THAT'S what you'll hear from long time players who have "adapted" to the "issues with the E" and can't understand why it's a problem ROFL !!! (they've just forgotten, and can no longer explicitly explain what they do!)  

The learning process is a true journey in and of itself.  Love it !

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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