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Rebuilding bows
Way to many questions
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steveduf
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September 16, 2018 - 10:46 pm
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Initially, rebuilding bows seemed fairly easy. But the more I’m getting into it the more questions I have. If it’s just a rehair it is pretty straightforward. But getting into the variety of frogs and wraps on a stick, I don’t know what is norm for choice.
I know that the weight and balance point are critical but can vary to a small degree. Playability is most important.
I have a lot of bows and sticks to practice on. One nice German bow I started to work on needed a re-hair and frog. I ordered a new ebony frog and it is heavier than I want and gives the projected weight in the 65ish gram range and will probably make it heavy on the frog. Not sure if anyone works on a frog to lighten it or if frogs can be ordered by weight or not. I figure with a heavier frog you can compensate to a degree with your wrap.
Also... is an antique bow value mainly determined by the stick? I know the silver and gold trim make an obvious upgrade but how much?
Once I get more experienced I have some nicer bows to work on. Some of these bows baffle me with their light weight,
This is an example of one,
It is a HOMA pernambuco. It measures just short of 29”, balance point is at 10 1/8”, weighs in at 51.5 grams.
It needs rehaired and that will add maybe 1 1/2 -2 more grams and bring the balance point down to a good range.
But... 53-54 grams seems way too light?
When re-building an antique stick I like the looks of a black goatskin wrap trimmed in silver wire... any thoughts?

i really want to end up with some quality bows...10C13BB3-C49B-4857-AC80-8710A202144A.jpegImage Enlarger7ED35A92-95D7-455E-A4DD-6190E8899BE4.jpegImage Enlarger0D143E05-ED8D-4351-A747-E7353FA4906C.jpegImage Enlarger1A6180D2-B557-4ACF-AEE2-6BE13062EC56.jpegImage EnlargerA5B972C5-90DC-4402-8CEE-CD09AF8B2027.jpegImage Enlarger

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Irv
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September 17, 2018 - 4:32 pm
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Hi steveduf and others.  My bow collection is not extensive or expensive.  The only frog with a method of weight adjustment I know about is from my Heddon steel bow.  It has 4 cavities to put lengths of lead solder entered from the stick side.

Silver wrapping is expensive at $23/Troy oz.  I have used various colors of lead core fishing line, which is attractive and inexpensively obtained.  I would like to use simulated whale bone if I can find an inexpensive Asian source for it.

I hair the bow from the frog end first.  Have you found a method of accurately determining where to put the knot in the hair to provide adequate adjustment range on the frog screw?  It is a little hit or miss with my attempts thus far.

I would also like the name of a chemical to soften a super glue joint.  I find that many bows bond the maple wedges with this material and it is maddening to remove the wedge with sharp implements without causing damage to stick or digits.  I dare not use heat (perhaps a flamed exacto blade)?

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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steveduf
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September 17, 2018 - 11:14 pm
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 Does anyone have any comments on using a light bow?

Irv

are you wanting the simulated whale bone to make a frog?

i think it is easier to re-hair starting with the tip, then comb and tie the preliminary part of the knot a little short, thus being able to adjust the knot a little before finishing tying it off.

i agree, superglue is a pain. I ruined a frog tryinging to undress it because of the superglue.

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Irv
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September 17, 2018 - 11:57 pm
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One of the nicest bows I have came with an older Cecilio CVA 600 15” viola.  The black vinyl case has the weight and size of an alto sax case.  The winding is called simulated whale bone in two colors.  I will submit a photo of it tomorrow.  I have also seen similar on some bow auctions so I don’t think that it is an expensive addition.  I find it to be very attractive.

As long as the stick has a nice balance to it, I don’t see much of a disadvantage of a bow having a light weight (although I use black hair and dark rosin, so I get a fair amount of bite, and I put on a bit more hair than is likely standard).  And my light bows are constructed of steel tube so I am likely causing more tension on the hair than would be available from a wooden bow of the same weight.

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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Irv
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September 18, 2018 - 3:19 pm
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Full disclosure, it was easier for me to copy a photo from eBay than to take a photo of mine, so this is not my bow.  However, the simulated whale bone winding is very similar.  whale-bone-winding.jpg_

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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bocaholly
Boca Raton, Florida
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September 18, 2018 - 5:14 pm
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@Irv 
We really DO want a pic of your actual handiwork when you've got the simulated whale bone winding on that bow 🙂

As for disolving crazy glue, a friend's grandson recently managed to glue the palms of his hands together with that stuff while she was babysitting. 20 minutes of soaking in acetone (and some TLC) did the trick. I don't think the maple wedge you want to separate the bow hairs from will thank you, though 🙁

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Irv
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October 8, 2018 - 3:49 pm
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I found a British purveyor of imitation whale bone bow grip on eBay.  It always amazes me that there is someone out there willing to sell you what you want at a price that you can afford, if you can only find him/her.  

Now that I am getting some, any suggestions on how to install it on a stick.  My assumption is the use of plastic modeling cement similar to that used to install purfling on a guitar.  See photo of what I am talking about below.8577C4CD-40B9-4429-9384-AC5E7486863A.jpeg

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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Irv
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October 9, 2018 - 9:51 am
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I think that I have found a cheaper source of material for imitation whale bone whipping.  Rexlace comes in a variety of colors, most unfortunately garish, and is quite inexpensive (some even have sparkles, which the kids would love).  Tandy sells rolled leather strip under the trade name pro-lace, which also seems interesting (although more expensive).

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 9, 2018 - 10:36 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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That is great Irv. Glad to hear it. Love the DIY projects.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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bocaholly
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October 9, 2018 - 11:20 am
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Sparkles... fireworks_gifwhat fun! 

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Irv
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October 9, 2018 - 10:20 pm
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Hi bocaholly.  I kid you not.  I so want to do this.D819F0D2-0C3D-409B-BA07-6160C5438BF1.jpeg

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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Irv
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October 9, 2018 - 10:24 pm
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I did find a method to install imitation whale bone on a bow on another forum.  Similar to the installation of webbing on a bicycle handle bar.

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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steveduf
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October 10, 2018 - 8:21 am
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I have a few that actually have holes drilled in them, will post a piclater

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steveduf
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October 14, 2018 - 9:44 pm
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Irv

here are three different examples I found in my bows of different ways it was wrapped

 

the first appeared to have the ends glued and then wrapped with hide on both ends

obviously doesn’t hold the greatest.

 

the second one appears to be like you were saying as (wrapping a handle bar)

the third is what I was saying using drilled holes... the wrap originates and ends in a hole and is trimmed with leather or hide.  The wrap. Is cut with a sharp angle on the ends to facilitate going into the holes.

 

08BB6EB2-CE29-42FF-B6F6-56F27E47BE24.jpegImage Enlarger68B10B24-E52E-49D6-A56E-583929F4924B.jpegImage EnlargerB0992C05-E29A-4234-BCCC-2F6E7CEED379.jpegImage Enlarger

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steveduf
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October 14, 2018 - 9:54 pm
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A23279DC-8B87-4EA5-8DFC-F67577D897D0.jpegImage EnlargerAlso...

does anyone have pics of real whale bone lapping...

i was wondering if the wrapping in the third pic might be real

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Irv
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October 14, 2018 - 10:43 pm
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I think that I can do it using the “bicycle handlebar wrap” method, adding double sided tape to the stick under it.  I used friction tape on the handlebar, so the effect is similar.  I am even thinking about trimming the start and end of the wrap in a long vertical “v” so that the ends form a 90 degree angle.

That last photo of yours sure looks like the real thing to me.

I just purchased a large hank of black horse hair.  Did you have any success with rehairing a bow?

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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Fiddlerman
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October 15, 2018 - 10:44 am
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The double-sided tape sounds like a great idea but why not use just a little mild acrylic glue instead? Like titebond.
Not that I'm recommending it, never tried it, but seams like the the same thing as tape but without the added layer of plastic or paper.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Irv
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October 19, 2018 - 12:30 pm
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I went to the hobby store and got some sparkle Rexlace.  The gold color also seemed interesting.  Slightly more expensive was 2 mm diameter shiny leather lace in black, dark brown, and white ($9/10 yd, much cheaper on eBay by a factor of 10).

I read that the e-packet postage will shortly become a thing of the past, so these bargains may soon be over in the US.

If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse.  There’s no delight in owning anything unshared.  —Seneca

I consider any plane that I design a success if it rises high enough to crash.  —RA Heinlein

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