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Regulars


I had a bad experience recently purchasing a violin off of eBay.
I have only been playing about 6 months and so my intonation is still a little rough and by intonation, I don't just mean pitch control, I mean quality of sound from the bow. My first impressions of the violin were very good, it certainly sounded better that my trusty little Cecilio CVN-200 which sounds pretty bad I must admit.
However, I was experiencing extreme instability from the G and D string to the point where I was identifying "wolf tones", where the sound breaks up into foul sounding harmonics. I fooled around a bit, I swapped bridges with my CVN-200 and strings too. The strings made the most difference, to the point where I thought that maybe it was bad strings and the steel wrapped strings from my Cecilio had solved the problem. But no, the instability remained, it sounded as though the G string around C wants to break up into wolf tones and sounds raspy at best, even when you bow and finger very carefully. The problem is erratic, it comes and goes.
It is most significant to me that my little $110 CVN-200 has no problems spitting out notes all the way up to the octave on the G string, every day no matter what the weather, the phase the moon is in or whatever.
This was a Fiddlerman Concert violin and the whole experience really spooked me on the Fiddlerman violins, although I still haven't a clue as to what causes these problems. Even more intimidating was going down to the local music store and trying out a few of their violins and finding the same problem. Some of the violins had the problem worse than others.
Does anyone have a clue as to what causes this? Does the sound post play a role? I have heard that this sort of thing gets even worse in the base instruments.

Regulars



Have you considered the bow?
I have recently 'recommissioned' my viola after some time of disuse and am noticing that the bow that I'm using can effect it in the ways that you mention.
Just something to think about maybe
Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of ..... What was I saying????

Regulars


Ferret said
Have you considered the bow?I have recently 'recommissioned' my viola after some time of disuse and am noticing that the bow that I'm using can effect it in the ways that you mention.
Just something to think about maybe
Good point.
Sure. I tried the bow that came with my CVN-200 and that didn't make any difference. The carbon fiber bow that came with the violin was more stable on the G string than the rather uneven horsehair on the bow that came with the Cecilio.

Regulars


The violin has been sent back, but you have restored my confidence in Fiddlerman violins, especially if you will cover return shipping for violins you sell yourself.
I should say that I was very excited about the Concert violin, the sound was otherwise very sweet throughout. The pegs were so well finished, at first I thought they were plastic -- smooth turning too. The bridge was set up for a perfect string height, many things that I was having a difficult time with on my Cecilio were easy on the Concert. The double stops on Raglan Road, for example, suddenly fell right into place. I have since copied the bridge for my Cecilio and my playing has improved. The finish was elegant, pretty clearly at least a partial spirit finish.
It would really wrap things up for me to have some technical insight into the source of the problem. I don't want to try wrestling with the sound post myself just yet, but it would help to know what is going on. I am worried that it might be structural, perhaps a faulty glue seam somewhere, or a hidden crack. I notice that there are a lot of wolf tone "cures", which suggests to me that sound post adjustments are not always a solution.
What causes this particular sound problem?

Regulars


A quick search ("sound post" violin wolf tones) turned up some interesting clues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_post
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/mu.....dpost.html
http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/se.....inWolf.pdf

Regulars


Barry said
As I read through this I noticed you said you noticed it also on a lot of other violins you tried. If that happened to me, the first thing I would blame was my technique and see if I could figure out if I was doing something wrong
Not this time. Like I said, my Cecilio doesn't do it. Not at all. And the rest of the violins I tried did it to varying degrees. Clearly the instrument is involved.
This is not the first time I've seen a sales counter full of bad instruments, I have some experience with wind instruments.

Advanced member


Regulars


Fiddlerman said
Wolf tones are dependent on an exact pitch which corresponds to the frequency in which the plates are tuned at. When playing fast the tone doesn't usually resonate long enough to notice a wolf and when sitting on the note, many vibrate so it's not always easy to notice a wolf without actually testing long notes, chromatically and perhaps even at smaller intervals played non-vibrato. I'm one of those guys that could miss it
That makes sense. I'm at that point where I am just beginning to learn my way around the fingerboard, working my up towards the octave on all the strings. I'm struggling for pitch and intonation, especially on the lower strings that don't perform as well at the higher frequencies. I play slow because I can't play any faster and anything that gets in my way gets my attention fast. Vibrato, especially way up there, isn't a practical addition to my playing yet.
For example, Kreutzer #2, measures 11 and 12.
This article characterizes my problem:
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