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Violin identification help
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melodymeds
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March 3, 2021 - 7:07 pm
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Violin with label Nicolo Cerinto Cremona.  The scroll is carved with a bearded man. Any thoughts on where and when it was made greatly appreciated. I am not sure how to attach photos. 20210302_160456.jpgImage Enlarger

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stringy
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March 3, 2021 - 7:10 pm
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impossible to tell with just that image. The label doesnt mean anything.

Attach other photos in the same way you did with the one of the scroll.

You will need photos of the f holes , ribs, back , belly,  neck, scroll from both sides and back, tail. and if possible image of the label and inside of the fiddle. 

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

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ELCBK
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March 3, 2021 - 7:54 pm
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@melodymeds -

You did an attachment perfectly! 

Beautiful carving! 

More images is always better e.g., full front and full back. 

Do you live here in the USA?  If not, location may possibly help, also.

I gave you the link to what appraisers look for in labels, but this link tells you where to search and might get you closer to identification. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....Bow_Makers

At least this might be worth checking out until someone more knowledgeable can help you here.  

https://supportjdhs.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/music-notes.jpg

 

So, you never played your Father's violin?

- Emily

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stringy
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March 3, 2021 - 7:57 pm
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I have a friend who is a luthier I sent your image to him to try to help out, his reply was it looks like the head had been blowtorched sanded and then varnished again. Aged varnish would have lost its lustre, and also the burning has touched the top of the peg box, so I dont like to be the bearer of bad news but your fiddle may not be as old as you think. Your daughter should enjoy the fiddle as a memento and treasure it as it is, the value is in the memories.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

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melodymeds
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March 3, 2021 - 9:02 pm
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Thanks for your comments I will take more photos tomorrow of the front, side and back and post them for any help I can get. We have old photos of family members playing this exact violin  around the 1930s We are just trying to gather any information to pass on to grandkids. My daughter seems very eager to grow up fast to play this violin but she must grow more haha. 

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Mouse
March 3, 2021 - 9:52 pm
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I know what you mean about your “value” of it. 

The Bumblebee Flies!

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ELCBK
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March 3, 2021 - 10:17 pm
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@melodymeds -

Stringy has brought up some very good points for you. 

I did find an excellent article with insight into the history of artificially antiquing violins at karldennisviolins.com 

Talks about how after the decline of the old masters - some felt it more important to just make violins look old, rather than make good quality violins.   

You can also compare your Father's violin to this carved one - of a French maker. (29 photos)  Notice the elaborate decoration on all the violin's surfaces.

https://www.ebth.com/items/824.....opruggar 

 

https://www.lanesboro.lib.mn.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cat_fiddle.jpg

 

My last suggestion might be to contact the Fiddlershop directly, to see if anyone can help you identify this violin.

- Emily

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Gordon Shumway
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March 4, 2021 - 4:12 am
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I'm told those headed scrolls are fairly common. A friend had one in the 70s. His was valuable, but some of them aren't.

Andrew

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stringy
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March 4, 2021 - 6:02 am
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You misunderstand what I mean about old, old in violin terms is a few hundred years. Quite a lot of the german mass producers made trade violins with human and animal heads, these were done around a hundred years ago, they were antiqued for the foreign market. The label i your violin doesnt mean its made by the luthier who it mentions, it probably means its a copy, a lot of saxon violins had human heads, if you are lucky you can pick up a very good sounding violin from Germany, as there were gems amongst the many mass produced student ones. I cant fiind any mention of the luthier on your label in the list of Italian makers from that period, but the chance of it being an Italian violin from Cremona, are the same as winning the lottery, it is possible that the maker was an apprentice of one of the masters but usually tis would be mentioned on the label itself, its much more likely, that the label was just stuck in later, many violins mention cremona and stradivarius on the label this simply means they are copies.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

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melodymeds
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March 4, 2021 - 7:35 pm
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Took a few more photos hope this helps.  Thoughts? Also who is the carved man supposed to be? I appreciate any comments. 20210304_165154.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_165614.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_164210.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_165505.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_164326.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_165622.jpgImage Enlarger20210304_165530.jpgImage Enlarger

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Mouse
March 4, 2021 - 7:56 pm
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Nice violin. I love the flame! I can’t help you with your information search, but i like the violin. Thanks for posting those. I am sure you will get replies from people who know more, but I like it. 

The Bumblebee Flies!

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stringy
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March 5, 2021 - 6:25 am
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It looks german to me, with the pinched c bouts, but those are not great images, and there is no image of the front to see the f holes. post some on maestronet and see what they say if you want a real in depth history of it, but you will have to follow their image guidelines, there are no better experts on violin construction, makers and were violins were made on the net, good luck. 

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

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Gordon Shumway
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March 5, 2021 - 6:47 am
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It looks like it has seen action and a few decades in an attic or a junk shop, and one of the ribs is opening up in the penultimate photo, so maybe it's too old to be a modern fake. A photo of the label would be interesting - it will probably look old and not tell us anything at all, but there's a guy on EBay who sells a different "Italian" craftsman's violin every week and every single one has the same modern label.

Maestronet can be snooty. You have to be thick-skinned. To them, my Breton is a "nondescript yellow student violin", which it may be, or may have been before my luthier renovated it, but that's a wide and subjective spectrum: there are people who can tell you everything you want to know about a Lamborghini, but they drive a Ford, so you have to read between the lines.

If your violin sounds good, it's good. You'll need a luthier to fix it and evaluate it at the same time.

Andrew

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melodymeds
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March 5, 2021 - 8:42 am
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Thank you everyone for your responses. GORDON  STRINGY, MOUSE.  I will look into trying another site and hope I don't get any snooty comments andrew! Haha I'm a nurse and used to it. Any guesses on who the face carving is supposed to be? 

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GregW
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March 5, 2021 - 9:00 am
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melodymeds said
Thank you everyone for your responses. GORDON  STRINGY, MOUSE.  I will look into trying another site and hope I don't get any snooty comments andrew! Haha I'm a nurse and used to it. Any guesses on who the face carving is supposed to be? 

  

Hello,

The only thing i could add would be to keep it out of uncontrolled environments.  get a nice case for it and possibly get a violin shop to put some strings on it after checking ut out.  if you get a case take it out every so often for a day or so..  that way, when she is ready it will be!  very nice looking violin!  

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Gordon Shumway
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March 5, 2021 - 9:24 am
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I'm not sure a violin shop would be a good place to go. A luthier needs to fix that gap, put on a new bridge and some new strings and whatever else needs doing (something doesn't look perpendicular - the back might be coming away? Is there warping causing it?). I assume luthiers charge for evaluations, but  you might get a free one if you have paid a luthier to do some work.

Andrew

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GregW
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March 5, 2021 - 9:33 am
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sorry..i assumed that all shops have a luthier.  both of my locals ones do..do setup and repair work.  i forget most dont.

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ELCBK
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March 5, 2021 - 9:57 am
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@melodymeds -

I was curious about the Country your relatives came from because many head carvings are of famous composers. 

This looks like Dvorak, or Tchaikovsky.  

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/21/9d/18219d74b9516c673a11effee5a9c8e1.png

 

- Emily

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melodymeds
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March 5, 2021 - 10:56 am
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My family is from Hungary /Austria and grandfather played  this violin in Canada and Europe and traveled often. I would love to know some of the stories this violin could tell. Your comment about the carving possibly being Dvorak, or Tchaikovsky is something I can research and gives me a starting point .  It is better than researching santa clauss although my daughter may be upset to know it's not santa . Hopefully we can get some answers and more comments and thoughts.

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Gordon Shumway
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March 5, 2021 - 11:05 am
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ELCBK said

many head carvings are of famous composers. 

Is that a guess?

This looks like Dvorak, or Tchaikovsky.

It looks the same as my friend's, but that doesn't work as a refutation, but every one I've seen looks the same. Individual portrait carvings would be beyond the ability of a luthier, no?

I think it's just a generic bearded guy, although possibly originally intended to be a biblical prophet or something. (I'm just guessing)

Andrew

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