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Gavotta Corelli
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
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stringy
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March 31, 2021 - 11:48 am
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Learned this the other day, still struggling a bit with the string crossing as you will hear, any ideas with that would be helpful

or in general polishing ideas, apart from just practicing over and over again? I listenedto a woman on you tube who told me ratherthan move my whole hand for the high note I should learn to stretch which is more economical with movement and which is what I am trying to do.

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Gordon Shumway
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It's one of those pieces, especially in F major, like the Telemann Presto, the first piece in that book, where I suspect bits are easier in first position and bits are easier in 2nd position, and I'm going to have to ask my teacher for explicit fingerings.

You could maybe play it a tiny bit slower and with a firmer rhythm to a metronome set to 80bpm? I don't think you play it faster than 84, in fact, but the irregularities make it sound a little rushed in places.

(I have a habit of speeding up a little when I feel confident. I never needed a metronome for piano or oboe, but I'm starting to suspect that it's very useful on violin! Partly the reason is, an awful lot of fingerings and especially bowings can be speed-dependent)

(check out Oistrakh playing the Kreisler variations on that Corelli theme on Youtube. I didn't want to post it here, as it would have been insulting, but it was the first thing I heard by him, and the forcefulness of his rhythm is instructive. In fact, my first thought was, wow, he's a Bolshoi violinist! having said that, there's a lot of rallentando in places in his playing)

Andrew

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stringy
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March 31, 2021 - 12:32 pm
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Gordon Shumway said
It's one of those pieces, especially in F major, like the Telemann Presto, the first piece in that book, where I suspect bits are easier in first position and bits are easier in 2nd position, and I'm going to have to ask my teacher for explicit fingerings.

You could maybe play it a tiny bit slower and with a firmer rhythm to a metronome set to 80bpm? I don't think you play it faster than 84, in fact, but the irregularities make it sound a little rushed in places.

(I have a habit of speeding up a little when I feel confident. I never needed a metronome for piano or oboe, but I'm starting to suspect that it's very useful on violin! Partly the reason is, an awful lot of fingerings and especially bowings can be speed-dependent)

(check out Oistrakh playing the Kreisler variations on that theme on youtube. I didn't want to post it here, as it would have been insulting, but it was the first thing I heard by him, and the forcefulness of his rhythm is instructive. In fact, my first thought was, wow, he's a Bolshoi violinist! having said that, there's a lot of rallentando in places in his playing)

  

I will try that with the metronome, a bit slower, I too have a tendency to speed up in bits.

Just listened tothe variations he was one amazing violinist, his tone was incredible, glad you didnt post it here he makes me sound ragged, I love the way he didnt even bother taking of his rain coat.

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Gordon Shumway
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March 31, 2021 - 1:09 pm
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I have to say though, the only reason I went to Oistrakh was because I thought he played it slower. But I measured 80 for his tempo.

Andrew

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ELCBK
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April 1, 2021 - 1:48 am
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@stringy -

giphy.gif

You ROCK! 

 

giphy.gif

 

...keep it up! 😊

- Emily

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GregW
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youre coming right along @stringy.  I need to work on my violin hold like you have.  I stopped paying attention to arm, wrist, thumb position/angle and have noticed im almost palming bottom on neck now..lol

anyway,  nice playing keep it up!  liked the vibrato at the end!

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Gordon Shumway
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GregW said
have noticed im almost palming bottom on neck now 

Ditto. I need to sort it asap. It limits how far the pinky can reach, and it limits how close the second finger can get to the scroll.

Andrew

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GregW
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Gordon Shumway said

GregW said

have noticed im almost palming bottom on neck now 

Ditto. I need to sort it asap. It limits how far the pinky can reach, and it limits how close the second finger can get to the scroll.

  

2nd finger to scroll?

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Gordon Shumway
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GregW said

2nd finger to scroll?

Well, the point is, if I've played a B or an F# with my first finger, there's a big risk of playing a sharp G or C afterwards if my palm is too flat. But that may be partly because when I was 6 the end of my middle finger got chopped off and sewn back on again a little crooked.

Andrew

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GregW
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April 1, 2021 - 9:39 am
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Gordon Shumway said

GregW said

2nd finger to scroll?

Well, the point is, if I've played a B or an F# with my first finger, there's a big risk of playing a sharp G or C afterwards if my palm is too flat. But that may be partly because when I was 6 the end of my middle finger got chopped off and sewn back on again a little crooked.

  

gotcha...makes sense...

at least you should be able to play crooked tunes better than average huhman...  sometimes there is a bright side to tragic events.

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Gordon Shumway
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In fact arthritis has bent my index finger so that the two are now parallel curves! 

Andrew

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Gordon Shumway said
In fact arthritis has bent my index finger so that the two are now parallel curves! 

  

yeah..i think im gonna have problems there too.  especially shoulder.  i know i should be swinging elbow more out depending on what trying to play but left shoulder limits.  putting off to closer to retirement..hopefully.

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stringy said
Learned this the other day, still struggling a bit with the string crossing as you will hear, any ideas with that would be helpful

or in general polishing ideas, apart from just practicing over and over again? I listenedto a woman on you tube who told me ratherthan move my whole hand for the high note I should learn to stretch which is more economical with movement and which is what I am trying to do.

  

The only thing i can offer on string crossings was something someone told me...take some time to practice stopping bow before move.  its kinda klunky thing to practice, and you have to sorta exaggerate it to yourself when doing it..but it helps i think... what happens is youre still in motion with bow and trying to move to another string and even maybe change fingering at same time.  i think maybe thats whats going on.

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Gordon Shumway
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April 1, 2021 - 10:46 am
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Yes, for a string-crossing exercise I was doing I had to work out the following sequence: -

1. Stop bow

2. Move bow to new string

3. move LH finger

4. Start bow

For some people it might work to do 2 and 3 in reverse order.

Andrew

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ELCBK
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@stringy -

I listen to what the others said, slowed your performance to check.  Can't really notice much, except I always feel like I need to overly accentuate the down beats and longer notes so my playing doesn't appear rushed or run together. 

...then again, you mentioned you just learned this piece - maybe too early to be nit-picking?

But, do notice (think I might've mentioned before) your bowing hand/fingers - I only see some movement in your wrist.  Probably only noticing yours just because I'm currently trying to focus on my own bow holds. (lol)  

Anyway, in my 1st post in this link below, there is a Violin Lounge video - "Different Violin Bow Holds for Different Bowing Techniques". 

You might find this helpful - after the "Forte and Piano" (where I started the video for Dynamics), Zlata talks about how your hand/fingers need to change for smooth string changes, etc... also gives another link for more on smooth bowing. 

https://fiddlerman.com/forum/l.....#p114630 

 

giphy.gif

 

Let me know if anything helps.

- Emily

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stringy
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April 1, 2021 - 6:09 pm
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Thanks Emily I am going to check that out now, I have tried loads of different bow holds but cant get into any of them. 😀 once I start playing everything goes out the window and I forget all kinds of things, and if I am not extremely careful I go back to sawing, thing is though both you and I have only really been playing two minutes in violin terms.

Andrew and Greg good advice from you both there, I have just started playing an etude for string crossing from the wohlfahrt book, but in reality I think the  best way is as you say making sure the bow falls onto the string rather than letting it fall as I move toward it, if you know what I mean, quite excited actually as I will hopefully very soon finally be starting with my teacher, if we manage to stay out of lockdown.

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stringy said
Thanks Emily I am going to check that out now, I have tried loads of different bow holds but cant get into any of them. 😀 once I start playing everything goes out the window and I forget all kinds of things, and if I am not extremely careful I go back to sawing, thing is though both you and I have only really been playing two minutes in violin terms.

Andrew and Greg good advice from you both there, I have just started playing an etude for string crossing from the wohlfahrt book, but in reality I think the  best way is as you say making sure the bow falls onto the string rather than letting it fall as I move toward it, if you know what I mean, quite excited actually as I will hopefully very soon finally be starting with my teacher, if we manage to stay out of lockdown.

  

exciting time having someone there live to help! 

I based my comment on your request for string crossing help and not on anything i was hearing by the way.  Just wanted to make sure you knew i wasnt being critical of your video.

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stringy
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@GregW I want criticism Greg, if you dont get honest opinions you never improve, I like having things pointed out to me.

Non of us are going to be soloists, its enjoyment of the instrument that matters😁

I know myself how good, or bad I am, if you turned round to me and said thats awful, I would just laugh and take it on the chin, and probably nod sagely in agreement .

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Fiddlerman
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April 8, 2021 - 3:07 pm
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Great work Stringy!!!

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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