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Guangzhou Cremona Violins
Comparison Question for the Fiddlerman
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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 9, 2018 - 11:24 pm
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I watch your comparison and demonstration videos alot. ALOT! Like over and over and over. Question I have is about projection or just how loud they are, Say the Bourree and Kreisler compared to , say, the Holstein Bench Pannette? When you compared the the Bourree 750ES to your Jan Larsson it was easy to tell the Bourree played a bit louder, but coming through youtube is quite a bit different from in person. Is the Bourree as loud as the Kreisler? I understand that there would be tonal differences from any one violin to the next, From a traditional to a workshop to a benchmade, But does that difference also carry in projection from a piece of 10 year old spruce to a piece of 100 year old spruce? Or does the projection fall back into the design and thinness of the wood?

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 11, 2018 - 6:30 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Tough questions. LOL
The better quality wood, the better the chance of a successful instrument. That in combination of great workmanship of course.
Great quality wood can be thinner and lighter and still dense enough to be carved and graduated to optimal dimensions and replicas. The graduations vary from instrument to instrument and change the sound a lot.
In my experience, 10 instruments made with the same quality wood from the same tree by the same maker will have 10 unique sounds. They may be similar but they won't sound exactly the same.
Scott Cao uses wood from sources of 300 years and older when he makes his own bench made instruments. The projection comes from the proper amount of tension on an instrument that is as vibrant as possible. One can always get more tension by raising the bridge but the tension can be too much at times. Too much tension can choke an instrument or make it hard to play, requiring much bow and left-hand pressure. This is usually a trade-off between power and speed (action).

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 11, 2018 - 8:54 pm
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@Fiddlerman So when Ole Bull was cutting his bridges down and making them flat, He was actually taking away from the projection by lowering the tension? I've read that he destroyed priceless violins by trying to thin the walls and shoulders to the point he knocked holes in them.

I got to see a Scott Cao violin a couple days ago at the college, It threw me off the same way the fiddlerman carbon fiber bow threw me off. With the bow, I know the weight was about the same, but it felt so much lighter. The Scott Cao violin was noticeably lighter also, she had a coda bow also, couldn't really tell a difference there.

With the Scott Cao, the baby bird idea was ever pheasant ( present, couldn't help it) in being really gentle and light handed. When she played it was reaching the back of the auditorium, big rounded music room. The power was extreme but, the sound was delicate. It was almost like a spoken word would have broken the music as it flew through the air. I was Moved to the point of tears, it was so close to perfection it grabbed my soul and just shook it.

I'm thinking she said it was made in 2012 but I don't remember the number. It was an experience. 

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 12, 2018 - 11:52 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14339

I had no idea that he was flattening bridges. Hmmmmm

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 12, 2018 - 12:34 pm
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Fiddlerman said
I had no idea that he was flattening bridges. Hmmmmm  

From what I understand he was a terrible student, that in his mind he knew what sound he wanted to achieve but that wasn't what he was being taught and essentially taught himself to play. A musical genius. He would cut the bridges down so he could play multiple strings at the same time. All strings at once even. Chording at times like a guitar across 3 and 4 strings and popping notes so fast Paganini would have followed suit.

I wish I could have watched him in person, he was rock star in his time.

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 12, 2018 - 1:05 pm
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Ole-Bull.jpgSee how flat the bridge is in the photo? I found a short video also. Fascinating man.

 

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HP
Trondheim, Norway
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December 13, 2018 - 2:19 pm
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Ole Bull got the idea of flattening the bridge from Norwegian fiddles. He had great interest in the Norwegian folk music throughout his career. He didn't invent the idea it has been around since the 1600s, but I believe he's one of the few that first tried to do that with an Italian violin. Actually I managed to find a picture of a fiddle made in 1756 by Thron Isachsen Fladbøe. Notice the flatness of the bridge. Just a interesting thing to point out. 

On the topic, I've had a GCV Kreisler since 2013 from fiddlershop, and it have developed quite a lot since then. Become sweeter and more open. However I haven't tried the other violins that you list, but it's important to remember that a violin can develop quite a bit over the years.

thron-isachsen-fladbøe-fiddle.jpgImage Enlarger

'Armed with theory, practice becomes meaningful. Through practice, theory becomes fulfilled.' - Egon von Neindorff.

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 13, 2018 - 3:38 pm
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@HP I am so glad you posted. 1st, that is such a beautiful instrument, magnificent.

2nd, it is hard to find much on Ole Bull. I found a couple videos that played some of his music and it was just so alive, like being trapped in a whirlwind. He was truly a master of his craft. It's harder to find much written on him though. I poured over the library and the college library and found both to be wanting. They seemed to only be interested in Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, a passage on Mendelson, no mention of Paganini at all.

I have been looking for (not hard enough yet) Ole Bull, A Memoir, written by his second wife Sara. I know there is much more to his life than can be covered in a single page, which is about all is given him on several websites reiterating the same surface knowledge. I did find a couple passages written to Sara and he seems to be a very passionate man, eloquent, elegant, and poetic, keeping a tempo in his writings.

Again, thank you. Very much appreciated.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 17, 2018 - 10:44 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14339

Just to clarify, I don't see an advantage of flattening bridges. You hit other strings easier by mistake, and you really don't gain much speed unless you are switching from the bottom two to the top two strings. Even then, a great bow technique using the bottom part of the bow can be as fast.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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December 17, 2018 - 12:01 pm
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Fiddlerman said
Just to clarify, I don't see an advantage of flattening bridges. You hit other strings easier by mistake, and you really don't gain much speed unless you are switching from the bottom two to the top two strings. Even then, a great bow technique using the bottom part of the bow can be as fast.  

Not me ever. I struggle enough with the set up I have. I was actually going to ask if there was a more rounded bridge with a touch more separation of strings, maybe a slight lift of the E string that wouldn't affect the sound or projection.

I'm near completely deaf in my right ear and have a high pitched ringing in both ears, fluctuates from D through A, usually E to A, so projection is a big issue and this Legend is a beast when it comes to projection. Tried some some helicore strings on it but really didn't like them, (they were a regift), put the original strings back on and they are considerably louder.

Have been curious to see what the Larsen Il Cannone strings would do. Does the more powerful strings make a violin open up quicker?

Hateful Pain mentioned her GCV Kreisler, that is a brilliant piece of work. I don't know how many times I have watched the review on it. Amazing.

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Fiddlerman
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January 3, 2019 - 4:59 pm
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@Shane "Chicken" Wang - So no fiddle for you. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Shane "Chicken" Wang
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January 4, 2019 - 12:23 am
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Fiddlerman said
@Shane "Chicken" Wang - So no fiddle for you. 🙂  

@Fiddlerman Unless you show up, I'll be the greatest Fiddler to ever perform in my camper, aka, THE CHICKEN HUT!!!

It's the small victories that define us.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 7, 2019 - 10:49 pm
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Shane "Chicken" Wang said

@Fiddlerman Unless you show up, I'll be the greatest Fiddler to ever perform in my camper, aka, THE CHICKEN HUT!!!

It's the small victories that define us.  

I was referring to flat bridges that you don't like. LOL, I had to read your post several times to remember why I wrote that. Funny how at the time that we write stuff sometimes it's crystal clear and then it could seem meaningless.

However, you are entirely right about victories.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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