Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Check out the 2021 Fiddlerman “White Christmas” Group Project.
https://youtu.be/5NSTrFtP_Dg

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Violin in Argentina
Passionate music!
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (11 votes) 
Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 8:26 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Buenos Aires is famously known for birthing the "Tango", but I've discovered, thanks to AndrewH, an treasury of passionate melody & AMAZING rhythm-driven music throughout Argentina! 

There's TONS of Folk music genres! 

I mistakenly assumed the guitar would be King and dominate all the genres, but surprisingly, many feature the Violin - and some are predominantly accordion.  Beautiful melodies & rhythms for listening, but many dance oriented, emphasis on using different octaves & shifting - not seeing double stops used or any real ornamentation (yet), but I haven't checked them all out.

Besides rich Classical and Art music, Argentina has quite a few popular genres of "Rock National" music, much like we do, but with an identity all their own! 

Overall, the music is PROVOCATIVE - can't help but LOVE IT!  

Try for yourself!  Found a GREAT site, Juan Filomarino Partituras, with high quality play-alongs and wonderful Tutorials - many available with English CC!

Here's an EASY TO LEARN & beautiful melody, "Canción a la Bandera Argentina" (googly says "Song to The Argentine Flag")! 

Just take note of the violin image - should've been flipped.

 

https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/155/MI0000155373.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

Before The Tango: Argentina's Folk Tradition CD Tracks

Some similar music can be found in this thread:

Mexican, Hispanic and Latin American Thread

I'd like to point out Violin pieces from some of the specific Folk/Dance genres, in this thread. 

If anyone has anything to add, as I go along, it would be GREATLY appreciated! 

- Emily

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 9:05 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Before the tango there was the milonga - Piazzolla wrote some milongas.

Andrew

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 1:09 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Gordon Shumway -

Fun Video! 

Do you have a specific favorite Milonga - maybe with some sheet music, so people might try some?

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 2:00 pm
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 5:14 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Gordon Shumway -

Thanks... asked if you had a specific favorite. 🤨  All of these rhythms can be complicated, so any help by tutorial or play-along sheet music would be greatly appreciated.

 

"MILONGA"

Milongas use counterpoint - 2 voices with different rhythm.  "Milonga has a syncopated beat, consisting of 8 beats with accents on the 1st (sometimes also 2nd), 4th, 5th, and 7th beats." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....ga_(music)

 

I like this one, "Milonga De Mis Amores", by Pedro Laurenz.  Play-along sheet music from Eva Alexandrian!

 

 

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 9, 2022 - 5:15 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"CHACARERA"

They are either instrumental, or sung, for a rural folk dance that dates back to 1850 - where couples dance freely in a group and women have an equal opportunity to show off.  Usually Violin, guitar & drum is played. 

Playing involves using different octaves and sometimes shifting - GREAT PRACTICE! 

From Wikipedia: 

Rhythm [CHACARERA]

Contemporary Chacarera music is distinguished by its unique hemiola syncopation. Melody lines tend to begin in duple meter (6/8) and conclude in triple meter (3/4).  Accompaniment parts – including those on guitar, piano, bandoneón and drum – employ a constant compound meter of 6/8 and 3/4, with accents on the second dotted quarter and the third quarter note, respectively (Abalos 1952). The downbeat is generally elided until cadences, a characteristic that is particularly salient in the case of the “Chacarera Trunca” style, which cadences on the third beat.

 

Here's a chance to learn 3 Chacareras from Juan Filomarino (if you follow fingers, this image is flipped)!  "CHACARERA DEL RANCHO", "CHACARERA DE UN TRISTE", "CHACARERA PARA MI VUELTA". 

Make sure CC is turned on for English (or check video settings for your preferred language). 

 

 

"CHACARERA La TELESITA" - Tutorial play-along from Juan Filomarino.

 

 

NOW this tutorial is for 4 CHACARERAS, it's oriented right AND SHOWS SHIFTING "CHACARERA PAL TIO PALA", "CHACARERA PA MI TARTAGAL", "EL ALMA DE FELIPITO", "CHACARERA CHAQUEÑA".

 

 

I don't really trust googly to translate, so you can learn more about Chacareras here (if you read Spanish).  https://razafolklorica.com/historia-de-la-chacarera/

Any help making these rhythms easier to understand would be appreciated! 

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 10, 2022 - 2:35 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ELCBK said
[I] asked if you had a specific favorite. 🤨 

Yeah, I know. I don't. I have more than a dozen Piazzolla CDs, but the selection I listen to most is one a German penpal did for me back in about 1984 (that was on a cassette. I tracked down all the original sources and recompiled it digitally). The only Milonga on that is Milonga en Re, but I only listen to it, I don't play it. I'm not aware of having any other Milongas. I briefly looked at some milonga-specific discs yesterday on Amazon, but it was a mixture of rarity and high price and poor reviews concerning age and sound quality. (Quite a lot of old stuff never made it off vinyl. I even had two 1970s classical records that never got onto CD, to my huge annoyance)

Odd! I just looked at my entire Piazzolla collection, and Milonga en Re isn't even in it.dazed

Also I don't know what the definition of a milonga is. As I was browsing that Vuelvo al Sur book I wondered if all of Piazzolla's slow pieces are milongas: if so, take your pick. Perhaps the Milonga is just a dance that requires a certain kind of music to be danced to and it's a bit slower than a tango.

Andrew

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 10, 2022 - 3:24 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ELCBK said

"CHACARERA"

 
Any help making these rhythms easier to understand would be appreciated! 

  

South American rhythms can be subtle and intangible (if you start going down to Peru and places like that) - there are even pieces where you can't work out the time signature by listening to them. If they are written down for you, it can help, but here you should have noticed that his two 16th notes followed by two 1/8th notes are really played as four equal notes. All musical notation is approximate - even that of Beethoven or Wagner! Combine such rythmic ambiguity with alternating 6 and 7 beats to the measure (and off-beat emphases - e.g. for panpipe breathing) and my advice is either just listen to it or find a local ex-pat community/teacher that will let you join in.

I don't want to be negative all the time, but some specialisms you have to leave to the specialists (if I want good Indian food, I go to a restaurant, I don't cook it). I looked into some of this a little when I had a charango, and decided I had enough to do to learn what I was already trying to learn. When are you going to play such music? On your own won't really work - it has to be with others, and you have to be really good to join in with others. It's good to have a range, but if you overstretch that range it will burst like a balloon.

On the other hand, a thread of videos of violin styles all over the world for us to enjoy is a good thing.

Andrew

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 10, 2022 - 3:31 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Gordon Shumway -

That's okay! 😊

I really appreciate your effort & I'm happy I found one (Milonga)! 🤗 

Thank you! 

 

I ask for help describing these rhythms, because not everyone is able to see what's special about the differences in the same way.  Listening IS extremely important to this music.

Btw, I gave some details about what made a Milonga special & added a link for more info - if you're interested. 

I can start getting used to rhythms with these pieces here, now - besides, most of the melodies, on their own, are really beautiful to play & listen to! 

The Milonga I posted is actually a play-along with the 2nd voice - and I've seen some backing available, just haven't gotten to it, yet. 

I was exposed to similar rhythms in workshops at Fiddle Hell - sooner or later it will all sink in like Irish music & Nordic, Jazz & Blues, etc... the more you do it , the easier it gets!

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 10, 2022 - 4:06 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've been editing those two posts, but I think I've stopped now.

The point I still have to stress is that I've watched quite a lot of member videos on this site, and some of them can be rhythmically fragile, so I have to stress that people really need to develop strong rhythm before they can think of diverging into ethnic rhythms. 

HOWEVER, some people, I can imagine, may benefit, in that they will become aware of what the difference is between a loose rhythm and a firm one.

I'll try to make that the last time I'm negative and schoolmasterly.

Andrew

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
May 11, 2022 - 12:18 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15989
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Great stuff!

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 13, 2022 - 1:48 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
MALAMBO - Argentina's Dance of The Gaucho! 

 

AndrewH discussed playing "Alberto Ginastera's concert suite of four dances from the ballet Estancia", in his Blog - the 4th movement is the Malambo

Here's a cool video you can participate with, by Liz Wu - to help understand the rhythm of Ginastera's Malambo! 

 

 

Now, the traditional dance is vigorous improvization, but I noticed all the Violin music was a fairly moderate tempo - complimenting, but not a mimicry of every dance step!  ...my ankles hurt just watching. 

There are TWO styles of Malambo Dance - A softer version in the South, danced in bare feet, and a rougher form in the North, danced in an iconic style of leather boot.

 

 

Here's a Malambo to play-along, from Julio Andres Goncalves Da Silva! 

It actually has some double stops! 

 

 

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kNEa1Qq9Y-U/T29OF2yCGzI/AAAAAAAACsU/nImNennj33A/s1600/DSC05733.jpg

 

 

 

Look at the stitching!

- Emily

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 13, 2022 - 3:33 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

No offence to Nestor Vega but he looks like the love-child of Monty Python and the Pirates of the Caribbean!

Andrew

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 6:56 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As I was hunting around for another grade 7 modern piece to work on next year, I noticed that the NZMEB has Milonga En Re for grade 6, so here it is: -

(the sheet music is published by Tonos in Germany, and is a reasonable price. You'll just have to remortgage your house to pay for the shipping, that's the only snag)

Andrew

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 8:16 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Gordon Shumway -

Thanks for sharing Milonga En Re!  I like it - it's an interesting piece! 

Are you going to learn it?

What is the NZMEB? 

 

After listening, I think it would be great to try learning the violin part by ear. 

Pitches are clear, and where to shift is pretty audible from the video.  It doesn't seem too bad until about 3:15 minutes in - where it sounds like a continuous portamento, maybe starting with portato, then 'up bow staccato' bowing.  ...few artificial harmonics near the end? 

Up Bow Staccato - Violin Lab

Avatar
Bob
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 9:19 am
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 353
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 9:38 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Specifically, I refer to this pdf a lot: - https://www.nzmeb.org/download.....ew2020.pdf

It has a very high correlation, difficulty-wise, with the ABRSM, except for a couple of things: - it has Rachmaninof's Vocalise in grade 6, whereas ABRSM have it firmly in grade 7.

And Kreisler's Schoen Rosmarin is NZ grade 6, but it's tricky in places, so maybe ABRSM would have it at grade 7 if they had it at all.

I use NZMEB because it's fuller than ABRSM, and the Australian equivalent charges money for a download!lumpy-2134

So you'll notice that it contains Piazzolla's Ausencias from Vuelvo al Sur as grade 4.

Café 1930 and No 3 Molto marcato e energico at grade 7

And at grade 3 Milonga from 14 Tangos and other Pieces, pub. Schott

(so that I don't get accused of thread drift)

Andrew

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 10:27 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1961
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Schott are a famous publisher and shop in London. Last time I was physically there was about 40 years ago. If you've ever watched a Jacqueline du Pré documentary, you'll have seen her and Barenboim visiting the premises.

They have a lot of South American stuff on offer.

Milongas

Tangos

Piazzolla

Argentinian

Worth perusing for ideas.

Andrew

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
May 19, 2022 - 5:26 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 4434
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

This Malambo is pretty cool - starts off with horse whinny sounds on the violin. 

Violin, Drums & Bandoneon (Argentinian Concertina) are used in this video. 

 

 

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Thomas B.
Guest(s) 59
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming HP, UtahRoadbase, goettjp, Griff, Briant, ElisaDalViolin, sus49, Faith, Raven, joko_emm
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 4433
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2680
Fiddlestix: 2647
ABitRusty: 2481
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
damfino: 2024
Kevin M.: 1973
Gordon Shumway: 1961
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31057
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 79
Topics: 9732
Posts: 122542
Newest Members:
hgdgsvhgvuj
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 15989, KindaScratchy: 1759, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3741, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 3891