Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Check out our 2023 Group Christmas Project HERE

AAA
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
another beginners question
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (7 votes) 
Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 15, 2022 - 12:10 am
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

A little background : I have had my fiddle for many years, I inherited it and I had it repaired in 2003.  As I said in another post, I had a couple of 'false starts' over the years, with long stretches in between.  Time flies!!  I did not realize it had been THAT long ago when I had it repaired, until I was looking at some notes between myself and the lutier.  Anyway, I digress... 

Here is my dilemma:  I am practicing everyday and I can get some half-way decent notes at least part of the time, lol.  But for some reason, the notes on my A string are almost ALWAYS scratchy and just off base.  Even often with open string bowing.  Yes sometimes it is not too bad, but it does not seem to matter how light, how heavy I approach it, it is really hard to get a nice sound. 

Now, these are the same strings that have been on this fiddle since its repair.  I do have a spare set.  Is it a cop-out on my part to wonder if maybe the string is at fault?  Is it possible to have bad strings just from sitting there for many years?  Would bad strings result in this scratchy sound, or, again, am I just too quick to look for excuses?

violin-student  

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
March 15, 2022 - 1:28 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8088
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@LinDee -

Certainly wouldn't hurt to change your strings. 

Many people mix the string types and brands on their instrument - for the best tone and type of music they play.  So, if you change your string and you still don't like it - you may want to try a different kind. 

Since you aren't having this problem on the other strings, then I'm sure you are already aware that hearing scratches can be caused by using too much pressure with the bow.

What kind of strings are you using?  Some can sound pretty 'bright', or harsh.

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 15, 2022 - 1:37 am
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ELBCK  I don't know what the set is I am using - lutier's bill just says "1 set of super sensitive strings"  - I would assume they are a type more geared to blue grass genre than classical/orchestra type of music.  I know there are differences but don't know enough to know what they are :)    The set I bought (I just wanted to make sure I had a back up set in case one broke) is Red Label Violin strings, medium  ( I see they also say Super-Sensitive on the package...).

Yes, I try different amounts of pressure on the string, lighter, softer, firmer, making sure I am in the middle (ie not to close to bridge or finger board).  I find the whole idea of changing my strings pretty intimidating, but I am sure a time will come when it is not a big deal and I will be ready to experiment a little at that time.  But, for now, I just want to be able to have a halfway descent sound LOL

LinDee

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
March 15, 2022 - 2:21 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8088
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@LinDee -

I have read several extremely negative comments at thesession,org about using Red Label Super Sensitive Strings on ANY violin - saying they just sound terrible.  I've never personally used them. 

Might make your life much more pleasant to try something different. 

I've read that some fiddlers like 'steel-core' string for Oldtime fiddling, but I think they're hard on the fingers and the ears. (lol)  I have tried Helicore (steel-core) and didn't like the sound or how it felt to play with them. 

ANY 'synthetic-core' string will sound warmer & feel better to play on. 

If cost is an issue, maybe start by trying a set of Fiddlerman Strings.

Many recommendations here (under 'Violin') on the forum, but it still boils down to your instrument's needs, your likes, your bow & even the type of rosin you choose. 

Violin String Comparison Chart Thread

 

You might enjoy a laugh from this thread: 

Frustrated With Playing? Check Your Strings?

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
March 15, 2022 - 3:22 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1713
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Super Sensitive is the manufacturer, Red Label is one of the brands they produce. My impression is that Super Sensitive strings are marketed more toward fiddlers than classical violinists (most are steel) and they're not really even that popular among fiddlers. Red Label often comes pre-installed on inexpensive student violins, which is the only reason it's as common as it is.

About that string chart: what I would recommend is starting with something near the middle of the chart, and then making future string purchases based on how you want the sound to change from your previous string set. It may take some trial and error to find the right string set for your violin.

If you've had the strings on the violin for almost 20 years, most likely they have deteriorated just from being under tension for that long. I have a violin that I barely played at all from 2008 to 2017 (I mostly play viola), and the strings had visibly corroded a bit and didn't sound great, so I replaced them. If you're practicing regularly, most strings maintain good tone quality for 100-200 hours of playing time, but after that the sound gets duller and the strings don't respond as quickly to the bow. The strings are typically still playable for quite a bit longer, but eventually they will go false, which is to say that they won't ring at the same pitch that you hear when bowing, and at that point you have to change them.

I normally replace my strings after somewhere between 150 and 200 hours of playing. The strings don't sound as good or respond as quickly, but are still playable, which makes them useful as emergency backups in case I break a string shortly before a concert and don't have time to play in a new string. I keep my two most recent sets of used strings in my case for that purpose.

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 15, 2022 - 5:07 pm
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"Many recommendations here (under 'Violin') on the forum, but it still boils down to your instrument's needs, your likes, your bow & even the type of rosin you choose. "

@ELCBK : LOL, yep, I understand what you are saying, but right now I just find that pretty confusing!  But, someday it will all come together :)   Loved the links you provided, you are right, that second one was pretty entertaining.

@AndrewH : Thanks for you input, very helpful advice.  I think that is what I will end up doing.  I will probably go ahead and put this extra set I have on and see if it makes any difference, but also order a "middle of the road" set.  

Bottom line is, it is probably my playing (insert rolling eyes here) - I was reading through some posts and I don't even know where I saw it, but someone talked about the strings, getting good sounds and said the A string was usually the last one a beginner had success with.  Very interesting to me.  

I will update this thread after I get brave enough to actually change that A string!  

LinDee

Avatar
RDP
Members

Regulars
March 15, 2022 - 6:37 pm
Member Since: October 11, 2021
Forum Posts: 383
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ah yes, that "beginner sound."  Something I still struggle with sometimes.  Like today, because I apparently suffer from chronic fumble fingers, a wobbly elbow, and a bow that thinks it's on a holiday walkabout.

 

Please believe me, changing the strings might make a slight difference but the real solution is to play, play, play and then play some more.  Work on your posture, bowing technique, bow hold, and finger/wrist softness and flexibility.  Check your setup (chin rest/shoulder rest/position angle and tilt) to be sure that the violin is in the right place for you to play easily and without tension.  Pay close attention to finger placement on the strings because sloppy or poor finger placement can (will !) screw up your intonation and leave you frustrated and wondering why your playing sounds awful.

Eventually you'll get stronger in the muscles you'll need, and you'll find that "sweet spot" where the violin needs to be for you to play it, and then you'll start to be able to play well.

 

Watch a few "My 1st year of playing violin" progress videos on you tube and you'll see that most people take about 4-6 months to get beyond those squeaks and scratches.  I, unfortunately, must be a slow learner.

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 16, 2022 - 1:43 am
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@RDP : I am sure you are right.  Mainly I just don't remember having this issue THIS MUCH the other 2 times I started trying to play - but, it was a long time ago and maybe I am just not remembering it correctly - just expecting too much too soon maybe, lol. Was there only 2 videos?  that's all I saw...

Anyway, since today was actually a little better - guessing I was too quick to blame my strings.  However, I still plan to change out my strings fairly soon.  

LinDee

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 2:47 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8088
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@LinDee - 

I really think you should start out with some synthetic-core strings - give yourself a fair chance at enjoying this. (lol)

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 6:03 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 2458
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

My technique on my A string took longer than on any other string. I gather this is very common if not universal.

My advice to all beginners is stick with what you've got and when your strings wear out, replace them with Tonicas and blame everything on yourself for a few years.

Andrew

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 7:32 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1713
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Generally I would say technique matters more than strings. However, if the same strings have been on the violin since 2003, even if it hasn't been played regularly, it probably needs new strings already.

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 7:42 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 2458
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

AndrewH said
  if the same strings have been on the violin since 2003, even if it hasn't been played regularly, it probably needs new strings already. 

I didn't read that bit of the thread, lol!

(whenever I see people recommend a string change, I just think, ugh. There are people who recommend a string change if you've got an ingrowing toenail)

Yes, LinDee, buy some Tonicas (best value for money there is) and go for it.

Even often with open string bowing.

Open strings usually sound worse than stopped.

Andrew

Avatar
RDP
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 11:00 am
Member Since: October 11, 2021
Forum Posts: 383
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

LinDee said
@RDP : I am sure you are right.  Mainly I just don't remember having this issue THIS MUCH the other 2 times I started trying to play - but, it was a long time ago and maybe I am just not remembering it correctly - just expecting too much too soon maybe, lol. Was there only 2 videos?  that's all I saw...

Anyway, since today was actually a little better - guessing I was too quick to blame my strings.  However, I still plan to change out my strings fairly soon.  

LinDee

  

@LinDee 

There are lots of violin progress videos on youtube.  Search for "violin progress video self taught" and you'll get loads of them.

If you're asking about my channel it's here:

https://www.youtube.com/channe.....fkhliy0fcg

I have about a dozen videos up.  Do yourself (and the world) a favor - don't watch any of them.  Seriously, the world can't handle that much laughter and finger pointing.

 

Back to strings:

My violin developed a wolf tone so I changed my strings hoping to find a cure for it or at least minimize it.  No luck and it's still there only now it's sneaking around and hiding in the bushes instead of being right in my face all the time.  I have to play around the wolf and that's causing other problems in my development because I'm learning bad habits as well as getting frustrated when I try to follow instructions the way they're supposed to be followed.  The frustration leads to more bad habits which leads to even more frustration and so on.

All I can do is zen and chill when that happens.  Often I take a day or 2 break from playing until I don't feel I need to keep pounding away at my lessons to "make it work."  (Which is why I'm so behind in loading videos to my channel.)  It doesn't help much, but it does help some because it lets me start to see past the fog caused by the frustration.

Basically I learned to practice smarter, not harder.  Which has rekindled my desire to learn to the point I want to play every day.  No, not "want."  "Need" to play every day.  That "need" is where the improvement in my playing comes from.

I'm positive that if you keep the same kind of open mindset that all beginners get frustrated and the only way to get beyond it is to practice and concentrate on playing correctly, you'll get past this point and begin to sound like you can actually play a violin.

At which point I can sigh and go back to my fumble finger and wobbly elbow practicing while you and everyone else go on to be violin virtuosos on the world stage.

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
March 16, 2022 - 2:36 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 1591
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@LinDee - If you are looking for progress videos, I have been learning for almost 11 months now and have videos dating back to my unpacking and first playing. Here is  a link to my page: JohnG's YouTube.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 17, 2022 - 1:01 am
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@RDP and JohnG - I went and checked out some of both of your progression videos - thanks, I found them helpful - nice to see what another beginner sounds like and to see the progress you all have made too!

So I carry on for now - but plan on getting some new strings before too long.  Looking at the chart and reading/hearing reviews and advice, I am between the Fiddlerman, the Tonica and the D'Ardio Ascentes.  I also want to try the Thomastik Vision - but should not spend that much until I can prove myself worthy, LOL!!  I am NOT good at decisions and probably do not have enough ear sensitivity to differentiate that much, but hopefully will learn crossedfingers

thanks for all the help and advice everyone,

LinDee

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 17, 2022 - 2:46 am
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@Fiddlerman - a BIG THANKYOU for your video on changing strings!  I felt very intimidated by the process, but your video was SO helpful!   I actually checked out I think 4 different videos and your's was easily the most helpful.  Mainly because you had a great camera view of the peg box and I could really see and understand your instructions.  The only thing I would change is I really was unsure of how to even take the old string off ( I really AM a complete beginner and fear doing ANYTHING that would damage my fiddle!).  Thanks so much again !

Ok, so for all following this thread, I got brave and changed my A string!  (Remember, I had a set of new strings I had bought a long time ago, apparently the same as what was already on my fiddle, that is, Super Sensitive Red Lable Mediums)

Did my A string magically improve?  Well, noooo....  and, yes, that is, I could hear a little difference and as I played it more, I could definately hear a difference.  Best I can tell I still produce the scratchy sound via my technique but when I DO happen to get closer to a proper bow stroke, the sound is better than it was on the older string... so, I am happy and feel I learned a bit too.  Tomorrow I will put on the other new strings and will order one of the synthetic core sets when I make up my mind cool

Avatar
Bob
Members

Regulars
March 17, 2022 - 9:19 am
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 355
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@LinDee I agree with @elcbk suggestion to try synthetic core strings. Most of my violins are using Dominants, but I've had good luck using Fiddlerman Violin Strings which are very close to Dominants, but much more affordable. Steel core strings and my ears don't get along well together.

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
RDP
Members

Regulars
March 17, 2022 - 1:42 pm
Member Since: October 11, 2021
Forum Posts: 383
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

LinDee said
@RDP and JohnG - I went and checked out some of both of your progression videos...

LinDee

  

We're doomed.  Doomed I tell ya...  facepalm

Avatar
LinDee
Members
March 17, 2022 - 11:30 pm
Member Since: March 8, 2022
Forum Posts: 51
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@RDP :roflol

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2022 - 4:45 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 2458
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

When I say Tonicas, I don't mean avoid Fiddlerman's, which are unavailable in the UK without huge shipping costs, although maybe the cost of a letter would cover a set. Anything equivalent is fine for a beginner, not that Pierre is likely to go bankrupt if people don't buy his strings!

Andrew

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Gordon Shumway, Grandpafiddle
Guest(s) 97
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming anonkid, KindaScratchy, freesbee, paulinefiddle, Allenph, oneloudmime, MsJoy, Sandybourne, Ripton, Space., loveluach, husseinHr, reedc83, Guido, A. V. Suvorov, Scrap, DennisS, JiminTexas, mcwey, Fashionandfiddle, Giovanni
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 8088
ABitRusty: 4008
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2690
Fiddlestix: 2647
Gordon Shumway: 2457
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Mark: 2177
damfino: 2113
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31704
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 82
Topics: 10642
Posts: 135009
Newest Members:
ghaash, alisawilson, justinbrown, joshiburman, jamesmartinjs12, davidmorgan, OliviaErin, pbstrings, nayaghosh, henrykang
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16439, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3744, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 5448