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LH finger hopping or bridging?
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Gordon Shumway
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November 19, 2019 - 9:39 am
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I'm working on Mazas Op.36 no.12.

http://ks.imslp.net/files/imgl....._score.pdf

Other fingerings are possible, but there are a lot of places where I have to decide whether to jump a LH finger from one string to another or just bridge the two strings. 

I suspect jumping is what I am supposed to do, but I'm not sure. Partly I suspect it's right because it seems to be something the Suzuki books obsess about from volume 1 onwards. Otoh, it seems OTT in, for example, bars 16ff. Is there a rule for when to jump and when not?

Andrew

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BillyG
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November 19, 2019 - 2:49 pm
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LOL - hey Andrew not laughing at you, of course I'm not - nah - just the "issue"...  I have NO idea what the answer is - I fight with similar situations on the genres of music I play ( be it "general fiddle", pop, rock, folk etc ) and have to fight to decide how I should move to certain notes - do I shift real fast, or use the higher or lower string (if there is one reachable), do I just do a "fill-in" and ignore the difficulty, or, if it is the "same finger position for a note which is a 5th down or up" do I bridge and hold both strings down - happens a lot.... OR -  do I give up in despair - well - NO that never happens !  LOL - 

Hey, @Gordon Shumway - my response was, as you well know, is half serious, and half in fun - hope you get better feedback from those more accomplished than I- but I do sympathize with the issue, hence my reply !

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Bob
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November 19, 2019 - 3:31 pm
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@Gordon Shumway You really picked a tough etude. Lots of string crossing and bow dynamics. No 12 wears me out quickly 🙁 

Here's what I strive to sound like (ha, ha)

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

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Gordon Shumway
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November 19, 2019 - 7:29 pm
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Yes, I watched the Chevalier version earlier in the day. I guess at the speed he plays it, bridging is the only option, but my first source for this etude recommends a much slower speed - crotchet = 69, at which speed hopping is possible.

Andrew

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Bob
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November 20, 2019 - 3:21 pm
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Andrew,

You peaked my interest in this etude, so I "attempted" to run through it slowly.

What I find is that with the suggested fingering (example measure 3) where they suggest 1st finger on the low note (G), the only way I can play the upper notes (D) is by bridging with the 1st finger. There are several other places (like measure 14 where low note on the 3rd triplet is F and the upper note is C. I can only play that by bridging the 2nd finger.

Of course I have overly large hands (fat to match my head!) and I have difficulty NOT bridging strings 🙁

This is really a good bunch of etudes. I tried 11 also to see how badly my string crossing is (BAD).

I'm going to try to practice these later exercises more. I usually stuck to 1,2,3 and 4.

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

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Gordon Shumway
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November 21, 2019 - 2:10 am
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My copy of it (Jessica O'Leary) has subtly different fingerings in one or two bars (e.g. in bar 5 she has the A open and the first finger on the C#, and none of that 444 stuff, and the 1 is probably in the wrong place in bar 20, and she omits the penultimate and antepenultimate lines (just to fit it on one of her pages?). And, yes, although some can play such études lightning fast, that's not the point. We can play anything we want as long as we start slow enough and it builds technique. OK, ricochet probably can't be learnt below a certain speed, but in this particular case, all the techniques in it are learnable, and worth learning, at slow speeds.

FWIW, I'm not Chevalier's biggest fan. There's a video where he does Kreutzer 29, and I'm not keen on it. It's not that I fancy myself over him, it's that I'd want a slightly better violinist as a teacher to pay that much money to. Sorry.

Andrew

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Fiddlerman
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November 21, 2019 - 11:58 am
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Great exercises. Like violin Yoga.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Gordon Shumway
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December 5, 2019 - 6:39 am
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I showed this piece to my teacher yesterday, and as soon as I mentioned playing it slowly, I realised you have to hop every time initially - it's almost designed for that. You only bridge if you play it fast enough to need to bridge, but by the time you can play it that fast, your hopping will probably be so good that you won't need to bridge, lol. Mind, she's a violist, so maybe I will need to take that into account sometimes. (and I see I already mentioned Suzuki)

Andrew

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Gordon Shumway
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December 19, 2019 - 9:33 am
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I have to say a little more about this far from frivolous exercise. I am studying it seriously.

It appears virtuosic, but you mustn't play it too fast, and it contains a lot of very solid technique, in fact. I was motivated to post this because I suddenly realised that in the book I got it from it was the first study with any slurred staccato at all! And in fact it is grade 4, in the view of the author! Once you get to bars 16ff and it sounds horribler than usual, you realise that the timing is the crucial thing: first I stop the bow, then I change strings with my immobile bow, then I change strings with my LH finger, then I bow. To do that, one has to play it slower than a snail. It repays the effort.

Andrew

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Gordon Shumway
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December 19, 2019 - 10:06 am
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I will now say something frivolous, though - 

no study should be longer than one page, lol!

But, seriously, does any need to be longer than a page?

Andrew

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Gordon Shumway
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December 21, 2019 - 9:33 am
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Gordon Shumway said
first I stop the bow, then I change strings with my immobile bow, then I change strings with my LH finger, then I bow. To do that, one has to play it slower than a snail. It repays the effort.

I was wondering if this was the only possible order of operations, and I noticed in Suzuki 1 the mantra "finger, bow, go". But that's at a more fundamental level. And my string-changing with the bow needs speeding up.

Andrew

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