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Skipping a high note in Fur Elise
I want to play Fur Elise but there’s one note only possible in Third or Fifth Position...
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (3 votes) 
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IssacBows
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October 27, 2020 - 7:11 pm
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Basically, I am a beginner about five weeks in and I want to play Fur Elise. I got the Intro part down pat but looking at the sheet music there’s literally just one really high note think it’s a high E on the E string. I’m pretty sure you’d have to be in 3rd or 4th-5th position to play it. I’m a beginner haven’t done any shifting only playing in 1st position and I don’t wanna mess around with shifting yet. Is there anyway for me to just skip that one note without it sounding terrible and still play the whole piece?

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 8:04 pm
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@IssacBows -

You can practice the 1 note, if you don't want to learn 3rd position right now (you kind of learn it anyway by doing what I suggest).  Can you do 1 finger scales?

Hope you are just talking 1 octave up on the E string? 

If you start open E string & play that major scale up 1 octave - with just your 3rd or 4th finger.  You'll find that "E" is not to much past the edge of your violin. 

Then, practice sliding your hand down the fingerboard so the edge of your hand hits the edge of your violin (you're basically in 3rd position).  Place your 3rd or 4th finger close to where you saw your finger was to play E (when you played the scale), then correct by listening.  Double check against your Open E string or tuner - might help.

Watch, listen, practice!  Go for it!  Slide & plant that finger! 

You can do it! 

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--wWA5ZGyH--/t_Preview/b_rgb:484849,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1481942729/production/designs/959081_1.jpg

 

- Emily 

Btw, please listen to more senior members of this forum if they feel my advice could cause you problems down the road in your learning - I'm very unconventional.

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IssacBows
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October 27, 2020 - 8:21 pm
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ELCB said
@IssacBows -

Just practice the 1 note, if you don't want to learn 3rd position!  Can you do 1 finger scales?

Hope you are just talking 1 octave up on the E string? 

If you start open E string & play that major scale up 1 octave - with just your 3rd or 4th finger.  You'll find that "E" is not to much past the edge of your violin. 

Then, practice running your hand down to hit the edge of your violin - come close to where you saw your finger on the scale, then correct by listening.  Double check against your Open E - might help.

Watch, listen, practice!  Go for it!  Slide & plant that finger! 

You can do it! 

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--wWA5ZGyH--/t_Preview/b_rgb:484849,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1481942729/production/designs/959081_1.jpg

 

- Emily 

Btw, please listen to more senior members of this forum if they feel my advice could cause you problems down the road in your learning - I'm very unconventional.

  

Wow lots to take in no I don’t know how to do one or two finger scales and I’m not good enough by ear to correct myself.  Using a chromatic tuner I found that high E is a stretched fourth finger for me in third position.  The note before it is an open E and right after there are two 1/16 rests. I think I might actually go for it. As for being unconventional I’m a big fan I do everything my way...😁 as long as it doesn’t completely mess me up...

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IssacBows
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October 27, 2020 - 8:23 pm
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ELCB said
@IssacBows -

Just practice the 1 note, if you don't want to learn 3rd position!  Can you do 1 finger scales?

Hope you are just talking 1 octave up on the E string? 

If you start open E string & play that major scale up 1 octave - with just your 3rd or 4th finger.  You'll find that "E" is not to much past the edge of your violin. 

Then, practice running your hand down to hit the edge of your violin - come close to where you saw your finger on the scale, then correct by listening.  Double check against your Open E - might help.

Watch, listen, practice!  Go for it!  Slide & plant that finger! 

You can do it! 

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--wWA5ZGyH--/t_Preview/b_rgb:484849,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1481942729/production/designs/959081_1.jpg

 

- Emily 

Btw, please listen to more senior members of this forum if they feel my advice could cause you problems down the road in your learning - I'm very unconventional.

  

Also I definitely want to learn 3rd position and might even start sometime soon but I want to solidify 1st position a bit more first...

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IssacBows
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October 27, 2020 - 8:25 pm
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IssacBows said

ELCB said

@IssacBows -

Just practice the 1 note, if you don't want to learn 3rd position!  Can you do 1 finger scales?

Hope you are just talking 1 octave up on the E string? 

If you start open E string & play that major scale up 1 octave - with just your 3rd or 4th finger.  You'll find that "E" is not to much past the edge of your violin. 

Then, practice running your hand down to hit the edge of your violin - come close to where you saw your finger on the scale, then correct by listening.  Double check against your Open E - might help.

Watch, listen, practice!  Go for it!  Slide & plant that finger! 

You can do it! 

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--wWA5ZGyH--/t_Preview/b_rgb:484849,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1481942729/production/designs/959081_1.jpg

 

- Emily 

Btw, please listen to more senior members of this forum if they feel my advice could cause you problems down the road in your learning - I'm very unconventional.

  

Also I definitely want to learn 3rd position and might even start sometime soon but I want to solidify 1st position a bit more first...

  

CB26713B-220C-4F04-86C8-68927A2EE22C.jpegImage Enlarger

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 9:01 pm
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@IssacBows -

1 Finger scales helped teach me to pay attention to whole step/half step intervals better. 

I think it's fine to use a tuner until you can hear it.  Just listen while you do it. 

Believe in your brain - it's amazing to learn what you watch yourself do and feel correctly can get you to what you are supposed to hear.  Later, you won't need to see. 

Good luck!

Pumpkin Magically Change To 3 Bats Emoticons- Emily

Btw, going to take a stab at parts in our Christmas Group Project?

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IssacBows
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October 27, 2020 - 11:00 pm
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ELCB said
@IssacBows -

1 Finger scales helped teach me to pay attention to whole step/half step intervals better. 

I think it's fine to use a tuner until you can hear it.  Just listen while you do it. 

Believe in your brain - it's amazing to learn what you watch yourself do and feel correctly can get you to what you are supposed to hear.  Later, you won't need to see. 

Good luck!

Pumpkin Magically Change To 3 Bats Emoticons- Emily

Btw, going to take a stab at parts in our Christmas Group Project?

  

Hmm I don’t know what one finger scales are... do you mean put one finger on and keep shifting it up?

also fur elise should be interesting and very possibly beyond me at this point because it’s possible it’s hard to play all the 1/32 notes in first position...

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 11:29 pm
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@IssacBows  -

Sorry I didn't clarify.

Just play a scale on 1 string - using only one finger for the whole scale.

You should try it with each finger (1 at a time), on each string.  

Start with each open string note. 

This might help - I haven't watched this in quite awhile, but love Prof William Fitzpatrick!  "Exploring One Finger Scales on the Violin" 

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/a4/6f/c0a46f4a2d6370d2ed9512536ce19823.jpg

- Emily

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SharonC
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October 27, 2020 - 11:32 pm
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@IssacBows

My 2 cents on this:

Short answer: If you absolutely don't want to shift, you can play that high E as a harmonic on the A string.  If you play the 4th finger E on the A string by touching it lightly (not pressing down), you will play this higher E as a harmonic.  Lots of info on web on how harmonics work, so I won't go into it here.  Fiddlerman has a video with some info here:

My longer answer:

I would play a lot of this in 3rd position. 

For the specific note you’re looking at, I would play in 3rd position on the E string with an extended 4th finger.

3rd position starts on the E string on A(1st finger) B (2nd finger) C(3rd), D (4th) – so you just stretch a little to get to the E. 

However, I would play the preceding note (the lower E) not as an open E, but also in 3rd position on the A string, 2nd finger.

3rd position starts on the A string on D (1st finger), E (2nd finger).  Being in 3rd position puts your hand in good position to play both these notes quickly. 

So, in 3rd position: 2nd finger A string (E) & stretched 4th finger on E string (higher E). 

Also, I would stay in 3rd position for the notes that follow (1st finger D♯, 2nd finger E), & then shift to 1st position on the B. 

But that was more than you were asking. smile

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 11:42 pm
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@SharonC - 

Thank you! 

Your longer answer is much better advice than mine.😊

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d4/c6/28/d4c628e64168de3e18e2f663a50b998c.jpg

 

- Emily

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Jim Dunleavy
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October 28, 2020 - 7:31 am
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If you want to stay in 1st position you could substitute either a B (4th finger E string) or just repeat the low E (open string or A string 4th finger) and it will sound OK.

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Gordon Shumway
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October 28, 2020 - 7:42 am
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You have four Es to play in two octave jumps. You should play the first two on the D and A strings with your 1st and 4th fingers. Then the next two on the A and E strings with your 1st and 4th fingers (it's a shift to 4th position). This shouldn't be too hard, as your 4th finger on the A string will guide your 1st finger in finding the same note in the same place. Getting used to where octaves lie under the hand is part of learning the violin, albeit not for beginners, perhaps. But if you are tackling this piece at all as a beginner, then you may as well go the whole hog.

(you may also like to think about playing the high E as a harmonic. That's possibly musically best, and probably technically easiest, too)

Andrew

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Fiddlerman
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October 28, 2020 - 8:52 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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IssacBows said
Basically, I am a beginner about five weeks in and I want to play Fur Elise. I got the Intro part down pat but looking at the sheet music there’s literally just one really high note think it’s a high E on the E string. I’m pretty sure you’d have to be in 3rd or 4th-5th position to play it. I’m a beginner haven’t done any shifting only playing in 1st position and I don’t wanna mess around with shifting yet. Is there anyway for me to just skip that one note without it sounding terrible and still play the whole piece?

Actually you are in luck. If the octave E on the E string is the only note that you need to shift for, just use your fourth finger in first position on the A string very lightly to play a harmonic. That harmonic is the exact note that you want to play. 

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Gordon Shumway
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October 28, 2020 - 11:06 am
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Fiddlerman said

just use your fourth finger in first position on the A string very lightly to play a harmonic. That harmonic is the exact note that you want to play. 

  

Yep.

Andrew

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IssacBows
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October 28, 2020 - 11:31 am
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image.jpgImage EnlargerELCB said
@IssacBows  -

Sorry I didn't clarify.

Just play a scale on 1 string - using only one finger for the whole scale.

You should try it with each finger (1 at a time), on each string.  

Start with each open string note. 

This might help - I haven't watched this in quite awhile, but love Prof William Fitzpatrick!  "Exploring One Finger Scales on the Violin" 

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/a4/6f/c0a46f4a2d6370d2ed9512536ce19823.jpg

- Emily

  

Thanks I’ll check out that video later probably only doing the first couple of hard of fur Elise anyways I think the 1/32 notes are probably played on third position super fast might very well be beyond me. 

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IssacBows
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October 28, 2020 - 11:32 am
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SharonC said
@IssacBows

My 2 cents on this:

Short answer: If you absolutely don't want to shift, you can play that high E as a harmonic on the A string.  If you play the 4th finger E on the A string by touching it lightly (not pressing down), you will play this higher E as a harmonic.  Lots of info on web on how harmonics work, so I won't go into it here.  Fiddlerman has a video with some info here:

My longer answer:

I would play a lot of this in 3rd position. 

For the specific note you’re looking at, I would play in 3rd position on the E string with an extended 4th finger.

3rd position starts on the E string on A(1st finger) B (2nd finger) C(3rd), D (4th) – so you just stretch a little to get to the E. 

However, I would play the preceding note (the lower E) not as an open E, but also in 3rd position on the A string, 2nd finger.

3rd position starts on the A string on D (1st finger), E (2nd finger).  Being in 3rd position puts your hand in good position to play both these notes quickly. 

So, in 3rd position: 2nd finger A string (E) & stretched 4th finger on E string (higher E). 

Also, I would stay in 3rd position for the notes that follow (1st finger D♯, 2nd finger E), & then shift to 1st position on the B. 

But that was more than you were asking. smile

  

Thanks for the long answer the thing is I don’t know if I should learn third position yet I’m still only somewhat confident in 1st position in G major D major A major and C I think I should learn flat keys also...

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IssacBows
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October 28, 2020 - 11:35 am
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Fiddlerman said

IssacBows said

Basically, I am a beginner about five weeks in and I want to play Fur Elise. I got the Intro part down pat but looking at the sheet music there’s literally just one really high note think it’s a high E on the E string. I’m pretty sure you’d have to be in 3rd or 4th-5th position to play it. I’m a beginner haven’t done any shifting only playing in 1st position and I don’t wanna mess around with shifting yet. Is there anyway for me to just skip that one note without it sounding terrible and still play the whole piece?

Actually you are in luck. If the octave E on the E string is the only note that you need to shift for, just use your fourth finger in first position on the A string very lightly to play a harmonic. That harmonic is the exact note that you want to play. 

  

Thanks Fiddlerman. It’s probably been said a lot just wanna throw in my thanks for everything you’ve done for every one trying to learn the violin themselves. Your website, tutorials, and sheet music have been super helpful...

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IssacBows
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October 28, 2020 - 11:37 am
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So

Gordon Shumway said
You have four Es to play in two octave jumps. You should play the first two on the D and A strings with your 1st and 4th fingers. Then the next two on the A and E strings with your 1st and 4th fingers (it's a shift to 4th position). This shouldn't be too hard, as your 4th finger on the A string will guide your 1st finger in finding the same note in the same place. Getting used to where octaves lie under the hand is part of learning the violin, albeit not for beginners, perhaps. But if you are tackling this piece at all as a beginner, then you may as well go the whole hog.

(you may also like to think about playing the high E as a harmonic. That's possibly musically best, and probably technically easiest, too)

  Sorry I’m a bit confused by all that. I think in the end I’m going to play up to the part with 1/32 notes and play the high e as an harmonic. 

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BillyG
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October 28, 2020 - 12:32 pm
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IssacBows said ......

Thanks Fiddlerman. It’s probably been said a lot just wanna throw in my thanks for everything you’ve done for every one trying to learn the violin themselves. Your website, tutorials, and sheet music have been super helpful...  

With you 100% on that @IssacBows - been here almost 6 years myself - there is ALWAYS more to find, not just from Pierre himself, but from all the members' discussions.

http://www.fiddlerman.com/forum is an awesome place to set your browser default opening page to!

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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