Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Private messaging is working again.
Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
(1 votes) 
Offline
I had a strange thing happen. Part of my plan for removing the tapes was concentrating on the sound of the strings. Before, my concentration was just hitting the tapes, nothing else.
Well, it was either Tuesday morning before my lesson or Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning, and then again Wednesday night. I tuned my violin by ear. I did not expect to do it. The first time I did it, I was reaching to clip my D’aadario tuner to my violin and I thought, “Let me see how close I can get without the tuner.”
Bowed my open G. Sounded good. Then I touched where I thought the A would be and it was definitely an A. Then I touched where the C would be. Again, sounded right. I figured that string held its tune. I did this for each string. D sounded good, as did E and G on that string.
When bowing the A string, it sounded flat. I fine tuned it just a tad and bowed again. Sounded just a tad sharp. Then I backed up half a tad. It sounded right. I touched where the B would be. I was a little off, but it was in the range of where I would be if it was my fingering, so I wiggled my finger and found the B. It was either the B where it would be with an out of tune string, or spot on. I checked the C#. Sounded good, as did the D with the third finger. Assumed the A string was good. Then I moved on to the E string and it sounded right so I touched where the A would be and it rang beautifully.
I attached my D’aadario tuner and double checked. Much to my surprise, I got it right. I did the same thing last night with the same result. I am not sure if it was dumb luck, or if I did tune by ear with accuracy. I wonder if I will be able to do it again.
I noticed that since removing the tapes, I know when my strings go out if tune when playing. By habit, I was using my tuner to check and adjust. I am now going to go the “tune by ear” route first and if I need to, double check with the tuner.
Again, I do not know if this will ever happen again, but I am going to give it a shot. Also, last night was the best “no tape” playing I have ever done. Not sure if it had something to do with all the playing I did at the viola shop in the afternoon when I taste tested violas, or if I am progressing with my tape-free playing.
I am odd in that, even though finger stretch is different between cello, viola and violin, playing one helps fingering the other when I switch. Figured it would make it harder.
We will see if I can tune my violin by ear after running errands before the snows fall again!
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
I'm getting the same thing - when I get my violin out and play the A string, I can tell if it's flat or sharp. I have to hear it first though - I can't think of the pitch beforehand and sing it. It doesn't work for me on other instruments either, even though I've been playing them longer (piano, flute).
I've tuned my A string entirely by ear and checked with the tuner to find it spot on.
I think we're both experiencing 'standard pitch memory', which is common in professional musicians.
Offline
Yup, that's interesting, I find much the same - although I have been fooled on occasion when I go to check - and maybe discover I'm a semi-tone down (oh - I of course mean on all strings not just down on the A or some other string) - so - my point is - even if the A is not 440, nonetheless all strings are still perfect 5ths apart and you get the "wider sound" with inter-string resonances when plucking just a single string - and it sounds just fine.
I appreciate most of us "go to the open A" as the initial indication of tuning when picking up the instrument - and indeed - if the whole instrument doesn't "ring" - something's "out"- could be the A that's drifted - although, it could equally be other strings....
Same thing on guitar - I've seen it "drift" ( through re-tuning because it sounds "out" when I pick it up) to easily a full semitone high or low (again, across all strings, so you have the wider inter-string resonances going on - and the instrument sounds just fine - well - until you try to play against a backing track or with someone else..... then you know for sure - hahaha)
Over time, I am getting quite close to "knowing" A440 - although, as I say, it depends, and if a re-tuning makes the whole instrument "sound right" in 5ths - it could still be out overall, but sound perfect, each string being a perfect 5th apart, with all these lovely, delicious inter-string and body resonances going on.
So I guess, my "relative pitch" is pretty good - and even with an instrument "de-tuned a bit across all strings" - it's gonna sound absolutely fine when soloed.
Besides, not everyone necessarily uses A440. Oddly - I recently came across this interesting little snippet (hahaha, took me 10 minutes to find it again) - A tuning fork that belonged to Ludwig van Beethoven around 1800, now in the British Library, is pitched at A = 455.4 Hz, well over a half-tone higher.
As far as absolute pitch goes - well - I pretty sure I can get close - but I wouldn't put any money on it at all 
I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - 
Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)
Regulars
Offline
I find I can generally tune by ear, but I don't trust myself. I need my tuner-crutch. However, when I put on new strings, I always ear-tune the A before ever bothering to put the tuner on... I get it where I am familiar with it sounding, put on the tuner and then change the other strings. I don't understand my own logic, lol.
☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
World's Okayest Fiddler
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
Regulars
Offline
I think my string supplier recommended new strings be put on a tone or a semitone flat and left to stabilise for a while before being brought up to pitch. I wouldn't like to attempt that without a tuner.
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Offline
Yes @gordon schumway - I've had advice similar to that - although to be honest I've never followed it - and - with new strings, I intentionally tighten the first one sharp (oh only half a semitone by the tuner) - and by the time the last string is on - I'll re-calibrate them all (they've usually flattened anyway with the increased overall tension) - and yes - I don't worry about the sound-post dropping - never happened yet - and even if it did - well relatively easy fix and I'd remember not to take all strings off on THAT instrument again LOL ).
I know, I know, not recommended practice.... but I'm impatient when it comes to fitting a new-brand of strings
I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh -
Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)
Regulars
Offline
Cid,
Congrats you have become self aware 
like skynet the computer on the
terminator movie.
Same here working to memorize that 440Hz A, some days I nail it, and well, someday not so well
Keep up the good work!!
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons
Offline
Thanks. Last night I did need a little assist on nailing it, but I did know it was just a little off, not a lot. Would not have noticed before. I was a little disappointed I needed to turn on my little Dnaadario, but then figured, that would be the case once in a while for a long time. I am always gard on myself, according to my oldest kiddo.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
I am truly envious of those of you who can tune by ear or on their way to doing so. Don't think that will be in the cards for me... can't sing in tune either 
On the other hand, I'm really not a fan of having that little d'Addario appendage on my violin. It lives there permanently right now. Since my iPhone is always near by when I practice (handy metronome app) maybe a tuning app would do the trick? Advantages, inconveniences?
Regulars
Offline
I was once watching a TV programme about Gypsy flamenco artists in Spain, and one group of performers featured a guitarist with a Snark permanently stuck on his tuning head. It spoilt the authenticity somewhat, lol!
In a similar vein (but thread-drifting), there's a Tuvan throat-singers' FB page, and they are friends with the Russian Beatles Appreciation Society!
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
Offline
@bocaholly I tried an iPhone tuning app, and an iPhone metronome. I had issues. Now, realize, I am really a klutz, and proud to admit it. Had to drop out of trying out for cheerleading. I kept stepping on my left thumb in one of the routines we had to use for tryouts. My thumb got really bad. Then, I stepped on it and sprained it. Wreaked havoc on my typing in typing class, and I love typing (on real angled rows typewriters, not the flat things we use now).
Anyway, issues I had:
1. I was afraid I would knock my iPhone down and break it
2. Battery life. I try to keep all my devices charged up. I have two little grandchildren on the other side of the country. I need to be able to Facetime. We only fly out twice a year. Actually, I need to contact my daughter today and see if they are going to be busy this weekend so we can have Facetime this weekend. It was a hoot last time.
3. Battery is pretty much shot. Again, waiting for no weather worries so we can drive in to the Apple and pay for a new battery to be installed. Cheaper than replacing the phone. Love my phone and not happy with changes to the new.
So, I kind of shy away from device apps. I was usng the Speak something metronome app. But again, it was a device app. Battery went down.
I wish I could just use a device sometimes, but such is life.
I like the immediate response on my D’aadario. Wish it would fit my viola. Didn’t fit over the edge of previous Eastman viola, and does not fit over my new Rudoulf Doetsch either. Not sure why it says it fits violin and viola. Clearly, it does not, at least the 15 1/2” and 16” violas, but description does not stare that. Have a solution. Just have to order another. Waiting until I need something else so I can get the order to $25 for free ahipping. LOL I don’t put it on from the get go now. I put it on if I am lost and need to get back on the right path.
I am still not convinced this isn’t some fluke, but we will see.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
I never tune my violin by ear because I don’t trust myself enough. I can hear when I play the wrong notes, to high or to low. I should practice tuning by ear more 😃
Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass. It’s about dancing in the rain!!
Offline
mookje said
I never tune my violin by ear because I don’t trust myself enough. I can hear when I play the wrong notes, to high or to low. I should practice tuning by ear more 😃
I am still learning it. Still have the D’aadario as a crutch if I am not sure. That will probably be used for a long time. It was quite surprising when I got it right. Wasn’t really in my plans and not convinced this is not a fluke yet.
Just try it when you start each time, and then pay attention how far you are off, and which direction. Can’t hurt. You always have your tuner there to assiste or go back to.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
@mookje, I'm betting on the fact that you have a good ear!
@Mouse, Phone battery... sigh, yes.
When I started using that slow downer software, it obviously gobbled up battery life so this is the solution I came up with - A phone clamp attatched to my music stand and hooked up to an outlet with a 10' lightning cable.
The little K&M clip is just to keep the cable out of the way. There are a ton of different clamps available but this one is no muss, no fuss, strong enough for my purposes and versatile within limits. Stage Ninja Scorpion Universal Smartphone Clamp Mount
Offline
@mookje Interesting gadgets!
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
Regulars
Offline
I don't tune by ear. I don't think I'd manage it (absolute pitch ? not my thing...). Then again, my instrument doesn't "detune" itself much, I just have to check once in a while.
Member
Offline
I think being able to tune by ear is a good thing, if you can achieve it (don't think I ever will), but being able to tell when a string is out of tune, even if just by a tad, is the skill to have.
There are many folk that seem to poo-poo using a tuner, like it somehow diminishes your credit as a musician, but my teacher, who's a great player and has near perfect pitch, uses a tuner. At a bluegrass jam I sometimes attend, I've noticed most of the players, all good and not youngsters, have clip-on tuners. And in December I saw Irish fiddler Eimear Arkins play and her fiddle had a micro tuner clipped on.
I put the tune-by-ear issue in the same category as learning tunes by ear as was traditional in some genres (e.g. Old Time, 'Celtic'). In deep rural areas years ago, there were no tuners of any type, nor probably the ability to read and write, so all was done aurally. Tuning by ear and learning tunes by ear are great skills to have, both of which I'm working on, but I'll continue to use all the 'tools in my toolbox'.
And, all that aside, when I wanted a clip-on tuner, it was a trip to Fiddlershop! 😀🎻
Bad times make for good stories.
Member
Offline
I haven't been to many (OK - any) professional orchestra performances where the string section whips out their tuners when the concertmaster calls for the "A." So l think that learning to tune by ear is definitely a skill to be acquired. However, for the moment, I have other fish to fry, so I will rely on the tuner.
I have seen a number of pretty high level (even pro) fiddlers, bluegrass players, etc. play with their tuners on. My teacher discourages this, so when I practice alone, I take the tuner off, and try to listen carefully to my intonation. It is nice, however, when playing as a reasonably slow pace with the tuner on to see the device mostly flashing green!
Dennis
If I don't have time for a short post, I'll write a long post - (adapted from Mark Twain)
Member
Offline
I don't play with it on unless specifically checking fingering and listening to the tones. Otherwise, like you Dennis, I'm trying to train my old ears.
Bad times make for good stories.
Offline
I hope you all weren’t thinking that I thought using a tuner was bad. I was just very surprised I did it. I don’t always remember to grab my tuner, and sometimes the battery is dead, so it was nice to find out I can rely in my ear sometimes. Now, last night my ears did not cooperate as well, but this morning, even on my viola, they did. So, I am still not convinced I will always be able to, and these instances are not flukes. Strange.
My instructor uses an app on her phone, which I read many people do. I use a D’aadario. I don’t know what she does when playing in her orchestra. Probably does not use one when playing professionally because she has done it without it during a lesson; unless they all have electronic ones attached to their music stands? But I would think that would really be annoying, and cumbersome with all the page turning, if they are not using digital music.
Oh, she does not use one when playing professionally! Duh! At the last lesson we were talking about it because she had said a couple before my lesson she put on new gut strings. First time she used them. I asked her if they stayed in tune easily because I had read they constantly get out of tune. She said they are still settling so get out of tune (she tuned a couple times during the lesson). She said that she had to change them and she has concert this weekend. I asked her what she will do if they go out of tune and she said she will just reach up and tune it as she plays, and no tuner.
Anyway, I hope I did not insult anyone. I did have to use my tuner twice while playing last night because I knew I was off, but my ears did not cooperate to be able to get back on track without a tuner. After I found my way again, I was fine. String was in tune, my ears weren’t.
Learn Violin and Fiddle
on
Fiddlerman's Fiddle Talk Forum
1 Guest(s)
ELCBK
Strabo
Mouse
Fiddlerman
