Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
I REALLY hate specialized terminology.
Seems it's a necessary evil no matter what I get involved with.
So, while I'm diggin' in Music Theory, 'Cadence' was something that threw me for a loop, because I used to have to march while the TI called out the 'cadence'.
I ended up thinking it was the rhythm. 🙄
Well, not so in music! AND, there's not just one kind! There's FOUR!
- Authentic Cadence
- Half Cadence
- Plagal Cadence
- Deceptive Cadence (now that's a deceptive term 🤣)
...some even broke down into a few sub-categories. 🤯
Here's the low down on ALL 4 (and their sub-categories) at musicnotes.com -
if i really wanna get wild, Ill substute an Em for a G chord the second time through the A part.
yes..when i first started reading your post...i thought...oh me..all i need to know right now is what a jig/reel/waltz/ and slip jig feel like so yeah...you got me on this..lol.. good info. I think some of this was in one of those Adam Neely videos too. also in chapter 20 in Edlys music theory for practical people book 1 ( yes i had to look) which should be on your kindle and/or book shelf ( and looked at every once in a while 🙄..talking to myself) i cant recall the celtic backing book i talked about saying much on it. I think I forget alot of this kinda stuff when trying to remember how the B part of the latest reel went.. but repetition in reading and going back to it helps. This kind of info for me is stuff that Ill forget without thinking about it but is still interesting and another piece of knowledge.
one other funny story that sorta goes with this but more on the what we expect to hear angle...
on a podcast where Bruce Molsky was being interviewed ( and I cant remember the context of the moemnt in the discussion, but it was generally about what we expect to hear) he said that one trick he likes to play in jam circles sometimes is to only play the first 5 notes of shave and a haircut.
i may be wrong..but i think the info describes what our ears are expecting to hear in the music we are used to, at least western music.. Its probably something to also consider when composing maybe? ways to make the ordinary more interesting. regardless, its a good article..and information. Im gonna try and take them up on the challenge at the end! good practice.
While you're looking at cadences, you can also look at turnarounds.
I asked a question once to one of the online irish guitar instructors and as part of the answer he suggested this album is required listening. Matt Malloy again also came up in another recent conversation as required listening forr irish, all of which has nothing to do with cadence other than the ending of Virginia reel on this track... Deceptive cadence? thoughts? I, up until now would have described this type of ending as ending on the question instead of the answer.. now have a better name if I got it correct..
Think it could possibly be 'deceptive cadence', but think it more resembles the very thing that has me confused.
What if there is NO chord progression at the end?
The "dah, dah" - at the end of many irish tunes is a distinct 2 beats of the SAME note, or in your case, one very long note (which could've easily been 2).
I found a MUCH better site for Cadence info at the schoolofcomposition.com.
Cadences in Music: Beyond the Harmonic Formulas
Rhythm & melody, weak & strong - all come into play.
Now, trying to also keep in mind, cadences can come about before all the notes end in a phrase. So I need to make sure I look further back than just the last 2 notes.
"Bizet’s Farandole – an uninspired alternative" and the following,"An authentic cadence with tonic in first inversion – from Schumann’s Papillons Op. 2 (Key of D major)", both caught my attention.
So, wondering if this is what happens at the end of many hornpipes - a weak authentic cadence? The 'dah, dah' is the tonic note.
But, in your case of the Virginia Reel, I listened very carefully - it did NOT end on the tonic. So I think it has to be a weak, "Deceptive Cadence". It doesn't end on a strong beat, which makes it weak (or more deceptive 🤣) - or am I wrong?
Thank you, Greg.
I really just wanted to jump out of the water here, but you pulled me back in!
Think I have a better understanding, now. (lol)
@Gordon Shumway -
You forgot to read my "necessary evil" recognition, but I will check out 'turnarounds', later - Thank you!
Right now I have to fend off a wasp, no one to help me for a few more hours - and my choice of weapons; a roll of paper towel, a tissue box, or my bow. 😳
Okay, Kevin got home & saved me from the wasp - back to music. 😁
Seems "Virginia Reel" does resolve more than a 'Half Cadence', though - doesn't it?
I was thinking the weak aspect - not ending on a strong beat, makes it a little harder to tell it's a 'Deceptive Cadence' - more 'open'.
Think this is what drives me nuts about what I call the 'Never Ending Tunes' - think the cadence is either weak or more open - or both.
...I give up.
@Gordon Shumway -
Almost forgot to mention -
LOVED your "Music Theory vs Rocket Science" comparison!
Need more of that kind of humor to revive the "Laugh a Day" thread!
Now, what I got out of 'turnarounds':
They're a strong harmonic chord progression, ending on a non-tonic chord
that also serves as a beginning to the next phrase -
making a "melded cadence" that allows 2 phrases to overlap.
More info here, from secretsofsongwriting.com -
Turnarounds: How They Work and 10 Examples
Here's one of the Never Ending Tune Sets that really messes with my understanding of Cadence. Think it's crazy that someone has to call out signals, like a Drill Sergeant! 🥴
Charlie Lennon (fiddle), Liz Carroll (fiddle), Máirtín O'Connor (button accordion), & Dave Flynn (guitar) play 'The Galway Rambler' and 'The Bucks of Oranmore' (Livetrad).
'The Galway Rambler' and 'The Bucks of Oranmore'
They could all stop at any point, and I'd still probably be playing... until someone gave me a tap on the shoulder, or jab in the ribs. Not so sure the signals called out would really help me much! 🤭
...if only! 🤣
Thats the ol HUP telling everyone youre about to change tunes. Although i heard some others in there..probably just enjoying the moment.. Usually the person that starts a set will be responsible to do it. Mine is always pretty comical because im barely able to play and throwing another signal to brain is dicey. My Hup usually comes out like ive been punched in the gut and is either way too loud or pathetic... one time i just did the cajun aiyee which got a laugh.. fun times. old time signals are you extend your leg out straight.. youll see alot of muscians that play on stage together just look at eachother...esp..freaky